A question of interpretation

[diana]

So many times I wish we could have actually 'heard' the testimony rather than having to imagine the speaker's emphasis or inflection.

For example, at the Preliminary Hearing Bridget is asked who was at the house when she came back from Dr. Bowen's the first time.

"Q: Who was there when you got back?
A: Nobody but Miss Lizzie. I told her he was not in. I told her what Mrs. Bowen told me. She told me to go after Miss Russell." (Prelim. 29)

I think most of us have always assumed that the pronoun 'she' in this testimony referred to Lizzie.

But here's Porter's take on it -- and he was actually in the courtroom.

He reports Bridget's testimony as:
"Mrs. Bowen told me to tell Miss Russell about it and I went back and told Miss Lizzie. She told me to go after Miss Russell." (Porter, 104)

So he obviously thought "she" meant Mrs. Bowen in this context.

Interesting....

[Yooper]

I agree completely, written records are one-dimensional. They lack the inflection emphasis and also the body language present in direct conversation. In the testimony cited, it's difficult to tell if the last phrase refers to "told", or "her", or "Mrs. Bowen".

[Kat]

If that is the true interpretation, I wonder why Mrs. Dr. Bowen did not come right over (which I had never thought of..) rather than possibly suggest to Bridget that she go get Alice?
It doesn't make sense to me that Mrs. Dr. Bowen would immediately decide that Alice could help.
I can't see a married woman and wife of a doctor suggesting the servant of her friend go get a maiden lady to help Lizzie after a *stabbing* affray. Why would she possibly do that?
Maybe Porter misread his notes?

[Richard]

Also, wouldn't Mrs. Dr. Bowen come running over herself after hearing that Andrew was murdered. It was only a couple of steps across the street. Did Bridget just report to Mrs. Bowen that Andrew had "been hurt" or that he had been killed?

Perhaps she thought of Russell because she wanted to stay in the home waiting for her husband but knew that someone else had to go help at the Borden house in the meanwhile and Russell was the first person she could think of.

From what I recall, Dr. Bowen was out on a house call and came home less than 15 minutes after Bridget came knocking on their door.

So Dr. Bowen runs across the street to examine Andrew. But nothing tells us of Mrs. Bowen's activities for the rest of the day. She just vanishes from the record. Did she join the crowds out in the street. Did she stay in her home? Did she ever enter the Borden home after the discovery of the bodies (most likely not since only relevant people seem to have been let in)?

[Allen]

If that is the true interpretation, I wonder why Mrs. Dr. Bowen did not come right over (which I had never thought of..) rather than possibly suggest to Bridget that she go get Alice?
It doesn't make sense to me that Mrs. Dr. Bowen would immediately decide that Alice could help.
I can't see a married woman and wife of a doctor suggesting the servant of her friend go get a maiden lady to help Lizzie after a *stabbing* affray. Why would she possibly do that?
Maybe Porter misread his notes?

I definitely agree with Kat. I think Porter's interpretation is incorrect. I also don't see how Mrs. Bowen would've thought to send Bridget running for Alice. For me the interpretation is that she is talking about a conversation she had with Lizzie after she arrived back at the house, and it was Lizzie who sent her after Alice upon hearing Dr.l Bowen was not in.

[Yooper]

It's possible that Mrs. Bowen was the only one showing common sense that soon after the murders. The murderer might still be lurking about.

[Allen]

If she was showing that much common sense she would've sent for police. But why would Mrs. Bowen have thought about sending for Alice of all people?

[Yooper]

The thought sequence seems to be:

Doctor
Alice Russell
Doctor
Undertaker

Concepts such as "police" and "Abby" are thought of by others.

[Allen]

Mrs. Bowen was included among 'others'. So why didn't she send for police? That's always troubled me also. Unless Bridget downplayed the magnitude of the situation.

[Yooper]

Mrs. Bowen testifies at the trial that she went in the Borden house with the knowledge that a murder had been committed. As near as I can tell, Bridget would have been the only communication from the Borden house until she went across the street herself. Perhaps she felt safer with her husband there.

She may have assumed that the police had been summoned by then. That should have been thought of simultaneously with the need for a doctor.

[Allen]

I've always agreed that the police should've been the first ones summoned to the scene. The fact that Lizzie didn't summon them I've always found suspicious. I think we discussed this in another thread, but where I am not quite sure. The fact that after Dr. Bowen the next person Lizzie thought to send for was Alice implies me she might've just been trying to keep Bridget away from the house for some reason.

[Angel]

The more I think of it, the creepier it seems. If I just realized my parents were savagely murdered, one of the first things to pop into my mind would NOT be to call the undertaker. It's almost like admitting to the crime- trying to get rid of the bodies immediately to make everything go away, including guilt. "Out, damned spot!"

[diana]

Phebe Bowen comes across as a fairly nervous soul. Remember she doesn't arrive at the house until Bridget goes over to the Bowen's a second time and asks her to come over. When she does come, she only stays for a short time and is told to go home because she "was not fit to stay". She does admit at trial that she was agitated when she got over to the house.

I can certainly see why she would suggest Bridget get Alice. Phebe Bowen had known Lizzie for 20 years -- since the Bordens moved into 92 Second St. -- so she would have known Alice when she lived next door to the Bordens and also known that Alice and Lizzie were close
friends. In fact, Mrs. Bowen testified Abby told her Lizzie was out visiting Alice Russell the previous evening.

Perhaps Phebe thought she should wait in to tell the Doctor what had happened, and knew she was too upset to provide any comfort herself, so she told Bridget to fetch Lizzie's good friend, Alice instead? I think we have to remember that not everyone reacts as charitably and compassionately as they would like when faced with a crisis.

As far as calling the police -- that didn't seem to occur to anyone except Cunningham when he overheard Mrs. Churchill at the stables -- and even he called the newspaper first, didn't he?

This is all a bit of devil's advocacy here, people. I'm not convinced one way or the other as to Porter's interpretation. I'm just suggesting that it might not be that far fetched.

[Angel]

I wonder if she was afraid to go over because she had seen enough of Lizzie over the years to be spooked by her.

[Smudgeman]

Well, Lizzie seemed annoyed that Mrs. Bowen was there. It seems Lizzie did not want her to be there, and she was sent home. If they had known one another for 20 years, why the cold shoulder when she arrives at the scene? She wants the good doctor by her side, but not his wife.

[Angel]

Is this true? Maybe there was some truth to the uplifted eyebrows about Lizzie and Dr. Bowen.

[diana]

Q. Were you an intimate friend of the family, Mrs. Bowen?
A. Yes, sir. (Trial, 1589)

Phebe Bowen also testifies at the Preliminary Hearing that she had seen a particular skirt of Lizzie's frequently "in the morning when I have been in." (Prelim. 480) And she was also concerned enough to ask Abby Borden how Lizzie was feeling on Wednesday evening.

I don't recall Lizzie showing annoyance at Mrs. Bowen's presence? Can you please cite what makes you think that? The impression I get from Mrs. Bowen's testimony is that she was asked to go home because she was in a highly agitated state and others were concerned for her.

[Smudgeman]

It is on another thread that I can't seem to find right now. When Mrs. Bowen came over, she was agitated, and was making noises, acting hysterical, something of that nature. Lizzie asked "who made that sound, or noise?", when she knew exactly who was there. It was Lizzie being theatrical of course, and I interpreted it as to her being annoyed Mrs. Bowen was there. I will try to find the thread.

[Allen]

I am not sure but is this the thread you are thinking of?

viewtopic.php?t=945&start=0

[Kat]

When Alice got there to help Lizzie, she didn't know there had been murder done until Morse came. So It's possible that Bridget did not tell Mrs. Bowen there was murder done either.
Alice went over thinking there was a relapse from their illness. Didn't the police come with only the knowledge there had been a *fight*? I think Lizzie said she had said her father was *hurt*?

I don't think Mrs. Dr. Bowen did know it was such a severe case and so sent Bridget away without joining Lizzie herself.
I recall that Harry had pointed out that Mrs. Dr. Bowen even fainted or was about to faint during one of her court appearances. I think the fact that she was awaiting her daughter and her husband, may have kept her at home.

After she did come over, she was sent home by her husband. He didn't want her there. You will have to look at what Bowen said for his reason. I always thought part of his reason was because he wanted his dinner!
Anyway, I think it's very possible that she was a nervous type of woman, and one who was very affected by the tragedy. Even her father, Southard Miller, refused to go over. Maybe she was like him, not thinking to get involved unless she was specifically asked?

[Smudgeman]

The point I was trying to make is that Lizzie was calling the shots. I wish I could find the thread that I was looking for, when Lizzie asked "Who made that sound, or noise?" Mrs. Bowen was there and was sobbing or making some kind of sound, and I am sure Lizzie knew who she was. I know Dr. Bowen sent his wife home, but to me it sounds like Lizzie was a bit "put off" that she was there. Just my opinion. Thanks for finding that thread Allen.

[Richard]

I just started reading the trial transcript and in Moody's opening statement he summarizes: "Bridget was then sent to Dr. Bowen. She came down, found the prisoner somewhat agitated, standing by the screen door and inside. There had been no scream, no alarm of any kind, and there was an attempt simply to secure the presence of Dr. Bowen. She came back unsuccesful from the search for Dr. Bowen. As she came back she was seen by Mrs. Churchill, who, looking out of her kitchen window saw the prisoner standing inside the door, and something in her appearance attracted her, and she called out to her. In the meantime, the prisoner had said to Bridget, "You go down to Miss Russell's house."

I think this is a little more solid to interpret Bridget's testimony than the way that Porter summarized it later on which was "Mrs. Bowen told me to tell Miss Russell about it." It seems that Porter was relying on memory, listening to Bridget in court, and Moody's was based on months of research.

[Harry]

In the Witness statements, Mrs. Dr. Bowen had this to say (page 10, Doherty & Harrington):

"Mrs. Doctor Bowen. “Was sitting at the parlor window awaiting the return of my daughter. I concluded she was not coming; got up, went through the sitting room, looked at the clock which indicated 10.55. Went through the dining room into the next room for a piece of cloth of ten yards, which I wished to measure and cut in two. I had not finished measuring, when the door bell rang violently. I went to the call, and found Mr. Borden’s work girl, who wanted the Doctor, who was out. Dr. Bowen returned home and went to Mr. Borden’s at 11.25.”

No mention of Alice Russell.

I think she would have mentioned that she told Bridget to go for Alice Russell.

[Kat]

The point I was trying to make is that Lizzie was calling the shots. I wish I could find the thread that I was looking for, when Lizzie asked "Who made that sound, or noise?" Mrs. Bowen was there and was sobbing or making some kind of sound, and I am sure Lizzie knew who she was. I know Dr. Bowen sent his wife home, but to me it sounds like Lizzie was a bit "put off" that she was there. Just my opinion. Thanks for finding that thread Allen.

I figured to go to the testimony to get this straight. It will save anyone looking for a topic and show what is in testimony, rather than opinion or interpretation.
I don't recall Mrs. Bowen sobbing or showing upset, but she made a noise.
Some testimony is from The Preliminary Hearing which not everyone has. That's where Mrs. Dr. Bowen's impressions are given.
According to Mrs. Dr. Bowen, Lizzie's eyes were closed during the ministrations done to Lizzie. They started in the kitchen.
After moving to the dining room seems to be where Mrs. Dr. Bowen made the sound and Lizzie wanted to know who that was behind her- like she couldn't look around for herself.
Mrs. Dr. Bowen was requested to come over by Lizzie, through Bridget.

Starting with Mrs. Churchill:

Mrs. Churchill
Inquest
129
I found Alice Russell sat down on a rocking chair, with Lizzie, and Lizzie had her head on Alice Russell’s shoulder. Mrs. Dr. Bowen came in in a few moments, and came and stood beside me. Miss Lizzie did not seem to know Mrs. Dr. Bowen, she asked who that woman is. Miss Russell said “that is Phebe Bowen.” Bridget was in the kitchen at the time.
-------------

Mrs. Dr. Bowen
Preliminary Hearing
479+

Q. Did you go over before the Doctor came home?
A. I did not. The Doctor went over to the house, and came in and told me Mr. Borden was dead. Soon after that, Bridget came back.
Q. The second time?
A. She did. She rang my bell, and said Miss Lizzie wanted me to come over.
Q. Did you go over then?
A. I was delayed a few seconds, and then I went over.
Q. When you got over there, who did you see there?
A. Miss Lizzie Borden, Miss Alice Russell, Mrs. Churchill, Bridget Sullivan, and I do not remember whether Mr. Sawyer was at the door when I went in. He was there when I came out.
Q. Where was Lizzie when you first went in?
A. She was sitting in the rocking chair in the kitchen.
Q. Were Miss Russell and Mrs. Churchill there with her?
A. Miss Russell was sitting in the chair beside her, on the edge of the chair, Miss Lizzie's head was leaning on Miss Russell's shoulder.
Q. How near did you go to her?
A. I stood directly in front of her. Miss Russell was fanning her with a newspaper.
Q. Did she appear agitated?
A. She had her eyes closed, and her head on Miss Russell's shoulder I thought perhaps she was faint. She did not speak at first. Miss Russell asked me to wet the end of the towel, as she was bathing Miss Lizzie's face.
-------------

Q. How long did you stay?
A. I could not tell how long I stayed, a very short time.
Q. Did you go in to see the bodies at all?
A. I did not. They told me Mrs. Borden had been killed, Mrs. Churchill told me.
Q. That is all you knew about it?
A. I did not see anybody.
Q. Did you go away before Lizzie went into the dining room?
A. I came out just, I think, as she was going in. Miss Russell asked Lizzie if she would go into the dining room, if she would take the chair in, as she thought it was cooler in that room. Somebody asked for a fan, and Lizzie told Bridget to go into the dining room closet and get the fan. We went into the dining room. I made a sound when they told me Mrs. Borden was dead. I sat in a chair back of Lizzie, where she was sitting. Lizzie asked who this was that made the sound. They told her Mrs. Bowen.
Q. That sort of upset you when you heard Mrs. Borden was dead?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Did you go home then?
A. Yes, they told me I was not fit to stay.
Q. Did you go into the house again that day?
A. I went as far as the back door, I did not go into the house; I did not go in that day.
Q. You go in often since.
A. Yes Sir.

[Smudgeman]

Thank you for clearing that up Kat. It just seemed odd to me that Lizzie would ask such a question. She was there, she could have looked for herself like you say.

[Yooper]

Lizzie needs to have someone turn around and look for someone making a sound or noise, and she needs to have people run for help instead of going herself. Sometimes it's hard to believe she could do anything for herself, including murder.

[diana]

Thank you everyone who posted testimony! That is always helpful.

This thread started looking at how the same testimony can be interpreted differently and it seems to have proved the point.

Of course it is totally possible that Lizzie was indeed "calling the shots". But could it not be just as possible that when Lizzie heard the distressed sound from the admittedly "agitated" Mrs. Bowen, she only knew someone was distraught but was not in a position to easily see who it was and was simply concerned? Her range of sight and motion may have been impeded for the moment by others in the kitchen.

Remember that in the testimony posted here from the Prelim., Phebe Bowen says that when she stood directly in front of Lizzie, Lizzie's eyes were closed? And when she made the sound, she was sitting in a chair behind Lizzie?

Again -- please know that I'm not taking the position that things happened either way. What actually happened in that kitchen is all speculative on our part and is based on reports by people who were probably all in a state of mild shock.

Of course I've never had any doubt that Bridget was sent by Lizzie to get Alice Russell -- but it also makes some sense to me that Mrs. Bowen might have suggested it to Bridget, too, for the reasons I pointed out in my earlier post. I tend to agree that Phebe Bowen probably would have mentioned this to Doherty and Harrington -- but again, can we consider the possibility that they might not have thought this relevant enough to include in their report? After all, these witness reports were written out from notes taken on the scene and often written out days later.

I really hope I'm not coming across as too feisty about all this -- I'm just working the "two sides to every issue" thing here so as to avoid locking Lizzie and the other participants in the case into behavior patterns that may or may not be warranted and worse tend to seriously hamper objectivity when studying the case.

The main thing that struck me as I was looking more closely at this initial encounter between Bridget and Mrs. Bowen was whether Mrs. Bowen asked Briget if Abby was at home? And if not, why not? And if she did, what did Bridget say?

[Kat]

That question about whether or why not or did Mrs. Dr. Bowen ask after Abby when Bridget came over is a good one.

The whole thing so far tho reminds me of the *note* conundrum. Recall how the defense made it sound like Bridget knew a note had come for Abby, independent of Lizzie telling her, because of Mrs, Churchill's answers? That was so complex, I bet the jury still didn't understand that it all came from Lizzie. Mrs. Churchill had an odd way of trying to be clear, at times.

The trial uses the word "agitated" to describe Mrs. Dr. Bowen? Did she say that herself? I haven't checked.
Also, I picture Mrs. Dr. Bowen in the dining room when she made the noise?

It's very possible that early notes on the case taken by the police were written up in more totality on Monday afternoon, August 8th, in preparation for the inquest.

[diana]

Yes, you're right. It appears they were all in the dining room when Phebe Bowen made the noise. I don't know why I was still picturing them in the kitchen. I think Alice Russell's inquest testimony supports them being in the dining room at that point too..

Regarding the word "agitated" -- Although it isn't Phebe Bowen who initially uses it to describe her own demeanour, she does agree with Knowlton when he suggests she was agitated when she was there.
"Q. Were you somewhat agitated yourself, Mrs. Bowen?
A. Before I went home." (Trial, 1587)

But now I'm starting to obsess about what transpired between Bridget and Mrs. Bowen during that first exchange. Doesn't it seem likely that Mrs. B. would ask Bridget if Abby was with Lizzie? Could she have assumed she was there -- and that's why she felt her own presence wasn't necessary at that point?

[Kat]

As I say, that is a very good question. I don't know why Mrs. Dr. Bowen would not automatically ask after Abby- Abby was her friend. I don't know that she cared particularly for Lizzie, but if Lizzie was in need of her she did go over.
Why wouldn't Mrs. Dr. Bowen wonder how Abby was or where she was? Maybe Bridget told her Abby was out due to a note?

Have we got ourselves a muddle-headed woman?

Also, I noticed that Mrs. Dr. Bowen agrees about the agitation (which word was put in her mouth, yes) after realizing that Knowlton trapped her with the *clean hands* thing.
Does it seem like that?

Upon reading it again, it seems Mrs. Dr. Bowen was making a good point in the defense portion of the trial, that LIzzie's hands were clean and white against her dark skirt. It seems she felt satisfied she had spoken the truth and showed Lizzie had no blood on her. Then Knowton turned it around cagily by saying, well, if her hands were clean, they didn't look like they'd been digging around in that dusty box in the barn, did they?
After that is when he gives her an *out* of being agitated, isn't it?

[diana]

Knowlton’s questions to Phebe Bowen about Lizzie’s clean, white hands are definitely designed to suggest Lizzie lied about being in the dusty barn (although, I’m not sure why he thought Lizzie couldn’t rinse her hands under the same tap Bridget used to fill her buckets in the barn.)

But back to the issue of Mrs. Bowen asking about Abby when Bridget comes for Dr. Bowen.

Here’s Bridget:
“ . . . [Dr. Bowen’s] wife came to the door, and I told her that Mr. Borden was dead. I think that is what I told her, and she said the doctor wasn't in, but she expected him along any time, and she would send him over.” (Bridget, Trial)

Here’s Phebe:
“The Doctor went over to the house, and came in and told me Mr. Borden was dead. Soon after that, Bridget came back. (Prelim. 479)

So do we believe Bridget or Mrs. Bowen? Did Bridget tell Phebe Bowen about Andrew’s death or did Dr. Bowen?

If we believe Bridget then Mrs. Bowen should at the very least have asked about Abby’s state? Did Bridget then say that Abby was out in response to a note -- and Mrs. Bowen, knowing Lizzie was alone, suggested getting Lizzie’s close friend, Alice Russell to provide support? (as Porter suggests)

Or is it possible Bridget simply left Mrs. Bowen with the impression Andrew had suffered a relapse from his illness the day before? In which case Mrs. Bowen thought Lizzie and Abby together could cope until the doctor arrived -- and was shocked by the news of Andrew’s death when her husband came back to the house?

It seems from her own words that our Bridget had little compunction about being the bearer of bad news so why wouldn’t she tell Mrs. Bowen that Andrew was dead (or at least badly hurt) the first time she came over -- and also tell her Abby was dead the second time she went over?

Bridget:
“. . . they asked if I would go over and tell Mrs. Bowen to come over. I went over and told Mrs. Bowen, rung the front door bell and told her that Mrs. Borden was dead and they wanted her to come over.” (Bridget, Trial.)

Phebe:
“I made a sound when they told me Mrs. Borden was dead. I sat in a chair back of Lizzie, where she was sitting. . . .
Q. That sort of upset you when you heard Mrs. Borden was dead?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Did you go home then?
A. Yes, they told me I was not fit to stay.” (Preliminary Hearing, 480)


Did Bridget tell Mrs. Bowen Abby was dead or did Phebe Bowen hear the news for the first time inside the Borden home?

I guess what it comes down to is that to even begin to speculate about Mrs. Bowen’s response to Bridget’s visit to Dr. Bowen’s, we need to know for sure what the excited maid told the doctor’s wife and -- with contradictory testimony like this -- what are chances we ever will?

Don’t you just love these dead ends?

[Kat]

Wow, that's good sluething. I don't think anyone had ever brought that up before.
It's curious as to what meaning it may have.

I was prepared to think that Mrs. Dr. Bowen was muddled and am trying to come up with a reason why. (Secret drinker? Morphine addict?) I know- that's terrible...

[RayS]

Wow, that's good sluething. I don't think anyone had ever brought that up before.
It's curious as to what meaning it may have.

I was prepared to think that Mrs. Dr. Bowen was muddled and am trying to come up with a reason why. (Secret drinker? Morphine addict?) I know- that's terrible...

Up until about 1913 buying drugs like cocaine and morphine was as easy as buying cigarettes or whiskey today. you didn't need a prescription.
Manufacturere would put morphine in baby's foods to get them hooked to their brand!!! You can look it up.

[Kat]

Do we know when Phoebe Bowen died?

[diana]

According to Hoffman (p. 42), Phebe Bowen died in 1907. I'll try to find another source that corroborates this, though.

[Kat]

Thanks. That's 15 more years after the crime. That's not bad! Maybe she was healthier than she seemed to me ( due to her fainting in public).

[Angel]

Knowlton’s questions to Phebe Bowen about Lizzie’s clean, white hands are definitely designed to suggest Lizzie lied about being in the dusty barn (although, I’m not sure why he thought Lizzie couldn’t rinse her hands under the same tap Bridget used to fill her buckets in the barn.)

But back to the issue of Mrs. Bowen asking about Abby when Bridget comes for Dr. Bowen.

Here’s Bridget:
“ . . . [Dr. Bowen’s] wife came to the door, and I told her that Mr. Borden was dead. I think that is what I told her, and she said the doctor wasn't in, but she expected him along any time, and she would send him over.” (Bridget, Trial)

Here’s Phebe:
“The Doctor went over to the house, and came in and told me Mr. Borden was dead. Soon after that, Bridget came back. (Prelim. 479)

So do we believe Bridget or Mrs. Bowen? Did Bridget tell Phebe Bowen about Andrew’s death or did Dr. Bowen?

If we believe Bridget then Mrs. Bowen should at the very least have asked about Abby’s state? Did Bridget then say that Abby was out in response to a note -- and Mrs. Bowen, knowing Lizzie was alone, suggested getting Lizzie’s close friend, Alice Russell to provide support? (as Porter suggests)

Or is it possible Bridget simply left Mrs. Bowen with the impression Andrew had suffered a relapse from his illness the day before? In which case Mrs. Bowen thought Lizzie and Abby together could cope until the doctor arrived -- and was shocked by the news of Andrew’s death when her husband came back to the house?

It seems from her own words that our Bridget had little compunction about being the bearer of bad news so why wouldn’t she tell Mrs. Bowen that Andrew was dead (or at least badly hurt) the first time she came over -- and also tell her Abby was dead the second time she went over?

Bridget:
“. . . they asked if I would go over and tell Mrs. Bowen to come over. I went over and told Mrs. Bowen, rung the front door bell and told her that Mrs. Borden was dead and they wanted her to come over.” (Bridget, Trial.)

Phebe:
“I made a sound when they told me Mrs. Borden was dead. I sat in a chair back of Lizzie, where she was sitting. . . .
Q. That sort of upset you when you heard Mrs. Borden was dead?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Did you go home then?
A. Yes, they told me I was not fit to stay.” (Preliminary Hearing, 480)


Did Bridget tell Mrs. Bowen Abby was dead or did Phebe Bowen hear the news for the first time inside the Borden home?

I guess what it comes down to is that to even begin to speculate about Mrs. Bowen’s response to Bridget’s visit to Dr. Bowen’s, we need to know for sure what the excited maid told the doctor’s wife and -- with contradictory testimony like this -- what are chances we ever will?

Don’t you just love these dead ends?

Maybe Phoebe initially heard that Andrew was dead from Bridget, but thought he may have just had a heart attack or died from natural causes. And then after she got to the house someone was discussing how he was murdered and that was why she made a noise- she may have reacted from shock at that point.

[diana]

Maybe Phoebe initially heard that Andrew was dead from Bridget, but thought he may have just had a heart attack or died from natural causes. And then after she got to the house someone was discussing how he was murdered and that was why she made a noise- she may have reacted from shock at that point.

It’s true -- it’s impossible to know the real cause for Mrs. Bowen’s distressed sound at the Borden house -- but if we rely upon her own testimony she claims she made the ‘noise' upon hearing about Abby's death, not Andrew's.

[Angel]

I should have read up on that before commenting. I had forgotten that it was Abby's demise to which she was reacting.

[RayS]

I should have read up on that before commenting. I had forgotten that it was Abby's demise to which she was reacting.

There is a belief that things happen in threes. With the deaths of Abby and Andy, what old timer would be next?
I personally knew of a case where a sickly person was quite upset with the death of two people on the block. "I might be next" he said. It did indeed happen (declining health from bad heart) then 3 or 4 episodes in the hospital until the last one.