I'm curious about Lizzie's mother.
What caused her death?
Is there any truth to the rumors of Sarah (at times) being emotionally unstable?
I've seen so little written about Sarah, and I'm wondering about any possible genetic traits Lizzie might have inherited from her mother, such as clinical depression or bi-polar disorder.
Sarah Morse Borden
Moderator: Adminlizzieborden
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myk7753
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Sarah Morse Borden
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
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myk7753
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Kat @ Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:59 am wrote:What are you reading now or read recently? Do you have any access to research on these questions yourself?
I mean, do you have any answers and need verification?
Hi Kat...
Quite some time ago, I read Kent, Sullivan, Hunter, Brown and Lincoln...I'm currently reading Rehak and Angel just sent me a copy of Karen Chaney's book which I haven't started yet.
Somewhere along the line, I recall reading that Sarah was prone to emotional outbursts. Exactly where I read that, I don't remember. Sarah obviously didn't die of old age, and I wondered if her death had anything to do with her emotional state.
Here's where I'm going with this. I have a close family member that has been diagnosed as borderline schizophrenic with bi-polar disorder. This is someone who would risk her life to save an injured animal, but cross her and she's ready to claw your eyes out...literally. She has attempted suicide twice.
There's so many contraditory statments made about Lizzie's personality..aloof, distant, cold...generous to a fault...warm and giving...the list goes on. Could she have suffered from a mental/emotional disorder inherited from her mother?
I'm just trying to understand Lizzie, who she was and why she acted/reacted as she did.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
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Kat
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Rebello, pg. 6
"Sarah Anthony Morse Borden died, March 26, 1863, in Fall River, Massachusetts."
"In this City, _____ 26th, Sarah A., wife of Mr. Andrew J. Borden, aged 39 years, 6 months and 7 days. March 27, 1863. (The name of the newspaper has not been identified)."
"Note: Cause of death was 'uterine congestion, 4 mos. Disease of spine.' (Death Record)."
_____
Here is what Morse was supposedly recorded as saying about his sister, Sarah:
The Boston Globe, Friday, August 5, 1892 - 1, 4
TWELVE CUTS
....
MORSE'S STORY
All the Circumstances up to and About
the Time of the Murder.
FALL RIVER, Aug. 4. - The many rumors in circulation this evening as to the suspects in the case induced the writer to call at the Borden House and interview John V. Morse.
He is a man fully six feet in height with gray beard and hair.
He was not averse to talking, and said in response to questions:
"My sister, Sarah A. Morse, married Andrew Borden in the city of Fall River when both were, as I remember, in their 22d year.
"That was 47 years ago. At that time Mr. Borden was in reduced circumstances and was just beginning to enter business.
"They lived for years on Ferry st.
"They had three children, one of who died when he was but 3 or 4 years old.
"The others, both girls, grew to womanhood and are now living; they are Emma L., aged 37, and Lizzie A., aged 32.
"Mr. Borden first went into the furniture business on Anawan st., where he remained for 30 years or more. My sister died 28 years ago.
"At that time Mr. Borden was worth fully $150,000, which amount he had invested largely in mill stocks, which were highly paying securities.
"He told me on one occasion that he had $78,000 in mill stocks alone."
--I doubt Andrew was worth that much when Sarah died. According to the census of 1860 he was worth $5,300 in real estate and $6,000 in personal estate.
For relative comparison purposes, he was listed on census of 1870 as worth $25,000 in real estate and $15,000 in personal estate.
Of course, these figures might be overvalued or undervalued due to something beyond our knowledge.
-----------
Knowlton Papers Sanity Survey mentions Sarah's personality and character:
Page 102
HK102
Report, handwritten in ink.
November 24, 1892
H. A. Knowlton
District Atty.
New Bedford, Mass.
Sir,
I have interviewed the following named persons in reference to the rel-
atives of Lizzie Borden who said as follows:
Capt. James C. Stafford North St. New Bedford.
I use to know quite well the mother of Lizzie Borden, her name was
Sarah Morse. She had a sister and brothers. john now in Fall River,
another brother who is a Blacksmith and is now out West. Mrs. Morse the
mother of Lizzie Bordon was a very peculiar woman. She had a Very bad
temper. She was very strong in her likes and dislikes. I never knew or
heard of any of the Morses or Bordons was ever Insane or anything like it.
I use to live in Fall River and always knew the Bordens and the Morses.
Mrs Gray who lives on this St. may tell you something aboute them, also a
Mrs Almy who lives on Franklin St, Fall River.
Mrs. - Holland Daughter of Mrs. Gray Resides on North St. New Bedford.
Same house with Mrs. Gray. I never heard my mother say that Lizzie
Bordon her mother or any of the Morses is or ever was Insane or anything
like it. I always have heard that they were somewhat peculiar and odd. I
have heard my mother talk considerable about Bordens and the Morses
but never heard her say that any of them were Insane.
Abraham G. Hart Cashier Savings bank Fall River. I have live here most
all my life. I never knew much aboute Lizzie Borden or her mother. I
never knew much about the brothers of Lizzie Bordens mother. Always
known of them. I never heard that any of the Morses or Bordens was ever
Insane.
S. H. Miller 93 Second St. Fall River opp. the Bordon House. I have lived
in Fall River 64 years. Bordon use to work for me. I know the Bordons
and all of the Morses. the father of Lizzies mother was Anthony Morse. I
use to know his two brothers. Know the brothers of Mrs. Morse, Lizzies
Page 105
mother. One is now supposed to be out West. I never knew or never
heard that any of the Morses is or was Insane. Know they were somewhat
peculiar. Anthony Morse had two brothers George and Gardiner Morse.
I was not a witness at the trial. I did not intend to be. I saw Mr. Borden a
little while before the murder. Bridget, the Servant girl came running
into my house and said both was dead just then a man was passing I
called him and told Bridget to tell him what she told me. She did and
that man was a witness. I did not want anything to do with it and I did not
go near the house.
Rescom Case 199 Second St. Fall River. I have lived in Fall River 57 years
and I know all the Bordens and the Morses well. A sister of Mrs. Morse
(Lizzies mother, married his cousin, a man named Morse, they now live
here in Fall River. I use to know Anthony, father of Lizzies mother. He
has a brother now living in Warren Mass. the woman that was murdered
use to visit my house often, but she use to keep her affairs to herself pretty
well, but I assure you I have my opinion of Lizzie Borden and I hope they
will get more evidence. My wife dont know any more than I do aboute
the Bordons or Morses. We never heard that anyone of them is or ever
was Insane but I think some of them worse than Insane.
Nov. 26.
John S. Brayton Fall River. I have lived here great meny years. I know the
Morses Mother of Lizzie Borden was Sarah, her father was Anthony
Morse. I think her sister is dead. Anthony Morse was a farmer, after he
owned a milk route. I never heard of anyone of them as being Insane or
having any streak of Insanity.
D. S. Brigam Ex. City Marshal of Fall River I use to know the Morses
never heard of any of them as being Insane, but this girl Lizzie Borden is
known by a number of people here to be a woman of a bad disposition if
they tell what they know.
Geo. A. Patty, Fall River I did not know much aboute the history of the
Morses but never heard that any of them is or was ever Insane but Lizzie is
known to be ugly.
Mrs. Geo. W. Whitehead 45 4th St. Fall River Sister of Mrs. Borden who
was murdered never heard that any of the Morses was Insane but ugly.
Since the murder people have said if she is guilty she must be Insane.
Mrs. William Almy Franklin St. Fall River Always known the Bordens
Page 106
and the Morses, but for several years I have not known much aboute any
of them. Some 30 years ago my husband who is now dead was in compa-
ny with Mr Bordon. I use to know the brother of Mrs. Morse (Lizzies
Mother) also her sister. I think their was 4 brothers. I have never heard
that their was ever any Insanity or anything like it among any of the
Morses.
Chester W. Green 80 years old lives in Fall River and have for 40 years. I
know the Bordens and the Morses but I dont know much aboute. Never
heard as any of them was ever Insane or anything like it.
William Carr lived in Fall River for 40 years I know the Bordons better
then I know the Morses. The Bordons are peculiar people but I never
heard that any of the Bordons or the Morses is or was ever Insane.
Respectfully,
Moulton Batchelder .
Dist. Police
"Sarah Anthony Morse Borden died, March 26, 1863, in Fall River, Massachusetts."
"In this City, _____ 26th, Sarah A., wife of Mr. Andrew J. Borden, aged 39 years, 6 months and 7 days. March 27, 1863. (The name of the newspaper has not been identified)."
"Note: Cause of death was 'uterine congestion, 4 mos. Disease of spine.' (Death Record)."
_____
Here is what Morse was supposedly recorded as saying about his sister, Sarah:
The Boston Globe, Friday, August 5, 1892 - 1, 4
TWELVE CUTS
....
MORSE'S STORY
All the Circumstances up to and About
the Time of the Murder.
FALL RIVER, Aug. 4. - The many rumors in circulation this evening as to the suspects in the case induced the writer to call at the Borden House and interview John V. Morse.
He is a man fully six feet in height with gray beard and hair.
He was not averse to talking, and said in response to questions:
"My sister, Sarah A. Morse, married Andrew Borden in the city of Fall River when both were, as I remember, in their 22d year.
"That was 47 years ago. At that time Mr. Borden was in reduced circumstances and was just beginning to enter business.
"They lived for years on Ferry st.
"They had three children, one of who died when he was but 3 or 4 years old.
"The others, both girls, grew to womanhood and are now living; they are Emma L., aged 37, and Lizzie A., aged 32.
"Mr. Borden first went into the furniture business on Anawan st., where he remained for 30 years or more. My sister died 28 years ago.
"At that time Mr. Borden was worth fully $150,000, which amount he had invested largely in mill stocks, which were highly paying securities.
"He told me on one occasion that he had $78,000 in mill stocks alone."
--I doubt Andrew was worth that much when Sarah died. According to the census of 1860 he was worth $5,300 in real estate and $6,000 in personal estate.
For relative comparison purposes, he was listed on census of 1870 as worth $25,000 in real estate and $15,000 in personal estate.
Of course, these figures might be overvalued or undervalued due to something beyond our knowledge.
-----------
Knowlton Papers Sanity Survey mentions Sarah's personality and character:
Page 102
HK102
Report, handwritten in ink.
November 24, 1892
H. A. Knowlton
District Atty.
New Bedford, Mass.
Sir,
I have interviewed the following named persons in reference to the rel-
atives of Lizzie Borden who said as follows:
Capt. James C. Stafford North St. New Bedford.
I use to know quite well the mother of Lizzie Borden, her name was
Sarah Morse. She had a sister and brothers. john now in Fall River,
another brother who is a Blacksmith and is now out West. Mrs. Morse the
mother of Lizzie Bordon was a very peculiar woman. She had a Very bad
temper. She was very strong in her likes and dislikes. I never knew or
heard of any of the Morses or Bordons was ever Insane or anything like it.
I use to live in Fall River and always knew the Bordens and the Morses.
Mrs Gray who lives on this St. may tell you something aboute them, also a
Mrs Almy who lives on Franklin St, Fall River.
Mrs. - Holland Daughter of Mrs. Gray Resides on North St. New Bedford.
Same house with Mrs. Gray. I never heard my mother say that Lizzie
Bordon her mother or any of the Morses is or ever was Insane or anything
like it. I always have heard that they were somewhat peculiar and odd. I
have heard my mother talk considerable about Bordens and the Morses
but never heard her say that any of them were Insane.
Abraham G. Hart Cashier Savings bank Fall River. I have live here most
all my life. I never knew much aboute Lizzie Borden or her mother. I
never knew much about the brothers of Lizzie Bordens mother. Always
known of them. I never heard that any of the Morses or Bordens was ever
Insane.
S. H. Miller 93 Second St. Fall River opp. the Bordon House. I have lived
in Fall River 64 years. Bordon use to work for me. I know the Bordons
and all of the Morses. the father of Lizzies mother was Anthony Morse. I
use to know his two brothers. Know the brothers of Mrs. Morse, Lizzies
Page 105
mother. One is now supposed to be out West. I never knew or never
heard that any of the Morses is or was Insane. Know they were somewhat
peculiar. Anthony Morse had two brothers George and Gardiner Morse.
I was not a witness at the trial. I did not intend to be. I saw Mr. Borden a
little while before the murder. Bridget, the Servant girl came running
into my house and said both was dead just then a man was passing I
called him and told Bridget to tell him what she told me. She did and
that man was a witness. I did not want anything to do with it and I did not
go near the house.
Rescom Case 199 Second St. Fall River. I have lived in Fall River 57 years
and I know all the Bordens and the Morses well. A sister of Mrs. Morse
(Lizzies mother, married his cousin, a man named Morse, they now live
here in Fall River. I use to know Anthony, father of Lizzies mother. He
has a brother now living in Warren Mass. the woman that was murdered
use to visit my house often, but she use to keep her affairs to herself pretty
well, but I assure you I have my opinion of Lizzie Borden and I hope they
will get more evidence. My wife dont know any more than I do aboute
the Bordons or Morses. We never heard that anyone of them is or ever
was Insane but I think some of them worse than Insane.
Nov. 26.
John S. Brayton Fall River. I have lived here great meny years. I know the
Morses Mother of Lizzie Borden was Sarah, her father was Anthony
Morse. I think her sister is dead. Anthony Morse was a farmer, after he
owned a milk route. I never heard of anyone of them as being Insane or
having any streak of Insanity.
D. S. Brigam Ex. City Marshal of Fall River I use to know the Morses
never heard of any of them as being Insane, but this girl Lizzie Borden is
known by a number of people here to be a woman of a bad disposition if
they tell what they know.
Geo. A. Patty, Fall River I did not know much aboute the history of the
Morses but never heard that any of them is or was ever Insane but Lizzie is
known to be ugly.
Mrs. Geo. W. Whitehead 45 4th St. Fall River Sister of Mrs. Borden who
was murdered never heard that any of the Morses was Insane but ugly.
Since the murder people have said if she is guilty she must be Insane.
Mrs. William Almy Franklin St. Fall River Always known the Bordens
Page 106
and the Morses, but for several years I have not known much aboute any
of them. Some 30 years ago my husband who is now dead was in compa-
ny with Mr Bordon. I use to know the brother of Mrs. Morse (Lizzies
Mother) also her sister. I think their was 4 brothers. I have never heard
that their was ever any Insanity or anything like it among any of the
Morses.
Chester W. Green 80 years old lives in Fall River and have for 40 years. I
know the Bordens and the Morses but I dont know much aboute. Never
heard as any of them was ever Insane or anything like it.
William Carr lived in Fall River for 40 years I know the Bordons better
then I know the Morses. The Bordons are peculiar people but I never
heard that any of the Bordons or the Morses is or was ever Insane.
Respectfully,
Moulton Batchelder .
Dist. Police
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doug65oh
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myk7753
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- Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:49 pm
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myk7753
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:49 pm
- Real Name:
- Location: Southern Illinois
I think it was in Kent's book that it mentions the inquiries made about the Borden family's sanity as a whole in regards to a possible defense ? (if I remember right), and I truthfully didn't pay it much mind. The question posed was simply sane or insane.
I just found it odd that in the books I've read Sarah's cause of death was never mentioned so it made me curious.
Did you notice in the notes you cited, when Uncle John refers to the 3 children born to Andrew and Sarah he states the one that died young was a HE? Goes to show even first hand accounts can be quite inaccurate.
Thanks again,
Michele
I just found it odd that in the books I've read Sarah's cause of death was never mentioned so it made me curious.
Did you notice in the notes you cited, when Uncle John refers to the 3 children born to Andrew and Sarah he states the one that died young was a HE? Goes to show even first hand accounts can be quite inaccurate.
Thanks again,
Michele
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
-
Kat
- Posts: 14770
- Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 11:59 pm
- Real Name:
- Location: Central Florida
Yes, the "he" has come up as a mistake before but don't let a certain someone in on that! 
We've wondered what disease of the spine might be. Uterine congestion might be a miscarriage.
Some have thought scoliosis, a "certain someone" might posit syphilis.
I think the "disease" could have been very painful and maybe Sarah took narcotics for it. Maybe Lizzie was born "addicted."
We've wondered what disease of the spine might be. Uterine congestion might be a miscarriage.
Some have thought scoliosis, a "certain someone" might posit syphilis.
I think the "disease" could have been very painful and maybe Sarah took narcotics for it. Maybe Lizzie was born "addicted."