What Led You To Lizzie?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:11 am

Sorry, the article is under copyright. You would need to subscribe to the magazine to get any part of the article you mention.
After copyright reverts to the author, it is up to them if they want to share it.

No I didn't read the "whittling" article on AJB, but could you send me the references in that article? If none, email it to me so I can review it at my leisure. Thank you in advance, for whatever you do.

--Ray

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:21 am

Here is the quote, in context, from Phillips:

"Next Mr. Borden left home to make his usual morning calls to his bank and to his real estate. He was a member of the investment committee of the Union Savings Bank, and a director in several other institutions. He was reputed to be a man of large wealth, in small part inherited from his father Abraham, but mostly accumulated through his own parsimonious thrift and by means which fell within the letter of the law. He owned much valuable and centrally located real estate, loaned money to persons in need if they were financially sound, and had reputedly made investments with brother Morse. Morse had spent most of his life in Iowa, but shortly before he settled in Dartmouth and was owner of some recently imported horses which were kept at a camp of itinerant horse traders in Westport."

Your quote, in your context was

Any man who gets rich "by means that just fall within the letter of the law" is not one who I would respect.

Surely you would know that Phillips, as Lizzie's defense lawyer, would not denigrate her father in his book. He would not put the onus on the victim- that's only reasonable.

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:51 pm

As I remember it, Henry Hawthorne's father was a hired hand on Wm S. Borden's farm (as per Brown's book). A 'tenant farmer' is something different, a higher status as he is sort of like an owner rather than an employee.
Do we agree that it is hard to pin down minor details from a century ago?

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:42 am

Kat @ Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:33 pm wrote:You are blaming the victim with your choice of words. I was wondering at your intentions- so now I know.

When Andrew Jackson Borden is canonized as a saint, or at least beatified, then I will apologize for my use of the familiar "Andy".

Do you know how many children were employed and exploited in Andy's cotton works? How many were killed or crippled each year? Or suffered diseases that sent them to an early death after years of sickness?
I'll bet Rebello's encyclopedia says nothing about this.

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:45 am

Surely you would know that Phillips, as Lizzie's defense lawyer, would not denigrate her father in his book. He would not put the onus on the victim- that's only reasonable.

The facts speak for themselves. Res ipso loquitur.
Did Arthur S Phillips ever meet Andy personally?
Lizzie was not guilty of the murders. IF she only kept her mouth shut to prevent a family scandal that's a borderline offense, IMO.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:56 pm

You were so much nicer yesterday.

Smudgeman · Post by **Smudgeman** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:00 pm

RayS @ Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:42 am wrote:
Kat @ Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:33 pm wrote:You are blaming the victim with your choice of words. I was wondering at your intentions- so now I know.
When Andrew Jackson Borden is canonized as a saint, or at least beatified, then I will apologize for my use of the familiar "Andy".

Do you know how many children were employed and exploited in Andy's cotton works? How many were killed or crippled each year? Or suffered diseases that sent them to an early death after years of sickness?
I'll bet Rebello's encyclopedia says nothing about this.

Do YOU have any children Rays? I hope not, in fact, I pray you don't. You remind me of the dim-witted professor on "Lost in Space". Thought he knew it all, and didn't have a clue on anything, ha-ha

qtpiegurl77 · Post by **qtpiegurl77** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:35 am

I grew up in Mass, so it was kind of a local legend.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:53 am

Hi!
What was- Andrew Borden?

I have been taking a *casual poll* of area residents.
I found one tale about Lizzie from a girls' school days in Taunton and another, different tale from school days in New Bedford.
Did you have a local story about Lizzie when you were growing up?

qtpiegurl77 · Post by **qtpiegurl77** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:59 am

I actually wasn't too interested till I grew up and moved away!

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 3:02 am

Well, then, what was *the local legend* to which you refer? Is it about Andrew?

qtpiegurl77 · Post by **qtpiegurl77** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:52 am

Most of the hubub was about Lizzie herself. Every year on august 4th the paper would reprint the story, which would get people talking. I didn't live in that part of Ma, I lived way over on the west side. I don't know if that would be considered local, but it was still talked about nonetheless. I hope to got this post makes sense, I was up past 3 reading threads, clicking links, and getting my feet wet!

Roy Nickerson · Post by **Roy Nickerson** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:40 pm

When I was 15, my father gave me Radin's book to read (my dad was quite interested in the case) and I've been hooked ever since.

Roy Nickerson · Post by **Roy Nickerson** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:41 pm

When I was 15, my father gave me Radin's book to read (my dad was quite interested in the case) and I've been hooked ever since.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:09 am

Yes our dad gave us a book to read too!
It's cool to have a family atmosphere that encompassed the Borden Mystery!

Lizzie Borden Society Forum

What Led You To Lizzie?

What led me to Lizzie

What led me to Lizzie