Another Newbie

bobarth · Post by **bobarth** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:29 pm

Hi
Just got addicted to Lizzie Borden over the last 2 weeks and I am trying to read anything and everything on her. I am also in to model trains and decided to model the # 92 Second Street home. I would like to do it as accurate as can possibly be done. The scale will be 1/87 HO scale. What I am wondering is does anyone know the color of her home in 1892, I read somewhere where the shutters were black, but there are so many contradictions and would appreciate any help with colors or information on the fake window.

Thanks!!!!!

I want to think she did not do it!!!

This is my first time ever to post anything on a topic board. Hope I did this correctly.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 3:57 am

Hi!
Where is everybody!
I remember my first post. I see you have Lizzie's birthday?
Happy belated birthday.

You ought to tell us about yourself and how you might be like Lizzie, for those who find some credibility in astrology!

Here is a link to the Borden house B&B.
They have removed the building next door and put a barn-like structure back up. You can go see the color.
It was described as "drab" back in the day, 1892.
Could be a greenish grey.
Maybe the new owner can tell you what the color is called?
http://www.lizzie-borden.com/

I don't recall that the shutters were black. I think they were painted, 1892, a darker shade of the house paint, is all.

There are floorplans with wall measurements worked up by Len Rebello & Bill Pavao.
Have you seen those?
Would you need something like that for *scale?*

Airmid · Post by **Airmid** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:10 am

Hi! Nice to see you on this forum! Lizzie IS rather addictive, isn't she?

I hope you enjoy our ramblings too!

Airmid.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:26 am

Boy I'll say Lizzie's addictive!
When I don't hear about someone for a long time, who used to be involved in Lizzie, I always ask: "How can someone just STOP Lizzie?" It is incomprehensible to me. Sell all the books- sell a collection- and just Stop?

bobarth · Post by **bobarth** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:11 pm

You know it is funny that you ask if I have any similarities to Lizzie. YES!!!
I can relate to her in so many ways. I am not much of a people person, would prefer to be alone with my animals. I am a fighter for the underdog. Was never really welcomed at church, was a free thinker and that was not welcome at the Baptist Church where I attended. There are really just to many to name.

And thank you for the belated birthday greetings. I did write the Lizzie Borden Inn owners today, thank you for that suggestion. I started my search for the information here because I have been lurking in your archives and am finding the best information right here. Very well informed group that keeps me thinking. Kind of weird but I have a need to talk about her ALL the time and I want to learn and read everything I can get my hands on.

I would love to see the floorplans you mentioned by Len Rebello & Bill Pavao. I have the layout of the house patterned out but am still doing a window count so that would help tremendously. Just steer me in the right direction. Also if you could suggest the best books that I might read about her and or her house.

Thanks again and if I get a bad case of Lizzyitis can you direct me to a nice 12 step group... BIG GRIN!!!!!

matt kevin jones · Post by **matt kevin jones** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:41 pm

Hi Newbie
Welcome to the Forum
Lizzie is like a drug, you just cant stop Her.
Just when you think you have had enough, something comes up on the forum, and you Dive right back in.

I agree with Kat, where is everybody ??

Today is the first time since I joined that I havent got an e-mail from a post watching ( Weird )

Be sure to read Rick Gearys "The Borden Trajedy"
it will help you visualize the events so you wont feel so lost about the house & surrondings.
Along with many other books, Lincoln, Radin, Brown, Sullivan ,Rebello & the list goes on & on.
Soon you will be like a Lizzie Crack addict.
Enjoy & Welcome
Matt

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:21 am

The Geary book is a good suggestion.

Also I was thinking of that video we were in :Lizzie Borden Had An Axe, because they made a scale *doll-house* version of The Borden House and display it in the video.
I don't know if the video is for sale? I haven't heard that it is?

I will post the floorplans.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:28 am

Do me a favor and add up the left side wall totals? One plan was corrected due to a slight mistake in addition. I want to be sure I post the correct one.

These are by Len Rebello and Bill Pavao.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:29 am

Bill Pavao & Len Rebello

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:37 am

Cellar Plan.
We don't have an attic plan. This is by Kieran, the survey guy.

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:54 am

HI bobarth welcome to the forum. Yes lizzie is very addicting. I start going into withdrawals if I don't visit once a day!! Now, that's pitiful!! But I love Lizzie. I even try to find different books on her.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:10 am

Not to change the subject but I've always been interested in that cellar privy. Not what it was used for but by whom. Bridget testified at the Preliminary (p33):

"Q. That privy out behind the barn, was that used by any member of the family, was that in use?
A. Mr. Borden used it.
Q. Did anybodyelse besides him?
A. Mrs. Borden sometimes.
Q. Did you ever know the girls to use it?
A. No Sir."

That would leave the cellar privy for Emma and Lizzie and sometimes Mrs. Borden. I can see Andrew using the barn privy but not Abby. I can't see either one using the barn privy on a cold New England winter day. Brrrrr....that would wake you up in the morning for sure.

At least the cellar had some heat from the furnace and chimneys.

Which facility do you think Bridget used?

Elizabelle · Post by **Elizabelle** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:28 am

Hello, Bobarth!

My name is Diane.

I wish you good luck with the creation of your Borden house. That sounds very interesting.

Is it a difficult process?

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:20 pm

I recommend David Kent's "Forty Whacks" as the best book to read as an introduction to this unsolved mystery.
Then sample your County Library System, and read in historical order. I think they all offer something, but they are not all equal in worth. IMO

Edmund Pearson - Trial of Lizzie Borden
Edward Radin - Lizzie the Untold Story
Victoria Lincoln - the "biography" based on town gossip
Robert Sullivan - his judgement of the case
Frank Spiering - Why it Was Emma (???)
Arnold Brown - The Final Chapter
William Masterton - Lizzie Didn't Do It

(Pardon me if I haven't quoted correctly.)

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:28 pm

My estimate of the size is about 28 feet by 44 feet. A 7 to 11 ratio.

Most houses today use an 18 inch offset between rafters, so building sizes are often a multiple of 3 feet. That's why insulation comes about 16" wide.

Two people with a 50 foot tape measure can test my estimate.

bobarth · Post by **bobarth** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:46 pm

Hi

You all are awesome, thank you so much for your help and suggestions.

Matt: I had ordered the Geary book and received it yesterday, maybe I can get through it this weekend as it looks like a real quick read.

Kat: I searched online for that video and could not find it for sale. I would have loved to have seen the doll house version of the house. I read last night in Karen Chaneys book that the house color was a drab gray and I think it was Rehaks book that said the shutters were black.

Here is my count on the windows and it matches the floorplans you so graciously posted (thanks) all except the fake window and it seems like I read in the trial or inquest papers that light could come in from the "fake" window, still have a lot of reading to do on that subject though.

Attic 2nd Flr 1st Flr Cellar

Front 2 3 2 0

Side
No Door 0 5 5 4

Side
Door 0 5 4 3

Back 2 2 2 2

Does that look right?

Elizabelle: It is not hard it is just very tedious as the sizes are so small. I have always worked from kits and this will be my first scratch built. I got in some of the parts I had ordered for making the house today. You should see the little teeny tiny axes they are so cute. Got a perfect match for the old victorian windows too. They do take months to build, well some of the more detailed ones do.

Snookums: I ordered two more books and backcopies of the Hatchet, I have it bad too!!!

Airmid: Love the ramblings, you guys crack me up.

Harry: Good question, I would guess the cellar but I am new, so what do I know!!!!

Ray: Perfect thanks for the recommendations and the heads up on the scale ratio.

Thanks again