She did it -I guess

Solitarioh2005 · Post by **Solitarioh2005** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:15 am

Hello.
First i must appollogize for my english.
I am portuguese,I live in portugal and I do not practice english(Besides listening to sky news cable TV and reading internet news).
I never read a book about the case, either.
I just read some web pages here and there.
I do think that Lizzie did it.

I am sure someone has already noticed what I am going to write.

(QUOTE)

Bridget Sullivan's Timeline

Bridget Sullivan

Source: Bridget's testimony at the Preliminary Hearing held from Thursday, August 25 - Thursday, September 1, 1892

/.../

10:45- 10:55 a.m. — Mr. Borden went up to his room. (pg. 21).

Mr. Borden returned to sitting room. (pg. 21).

Lizzie got out ironing board and put it on dining room table and started to iron while Bridget was finishing the last window in the dining room. (pg. 22).

While both were in the dining room, Lizzie asked Bridget if she was going out that afternoon. (pg. 24).

Lizzie followed Bridget to the kitchen as she hung up her cloths and threw out her water, and told her about a sale of dress goods at Sargeants. (pg. 24, 25).

http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Crime ... ridget.htm

/.........../

By that time Mrs. Borden was already dead upstairs.
Why did Lizzie asked bridget if she was going out?

Why did she actually tried that she got out in the afternoon,telling about a sale of dress goods?

Lizzie wanted to be left alone with her father so that she could kill him.

I might be wrong.Thats just a theory.

2-The relationship between Mrs borden and Lizzie was very bad.

Mrs. Borden had persuaded Mr Borden to make a new will.

For Lizzie this was perhaps the worst thing anyone can do to her.

Just a few years before Lizzie had a fight with Mrs bolden because of an home .

To take away what Lizzie considered to be her inherance was something she could not bear so she strike back.

Solitarioh2005 · Post by **Solitarioh2005** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:36 am

Lizzies murder was not fully thought throught
She did it out of rage towards her father and above all Mrs Borden that was the cause of all lizie problems.

In her testimony Lizzie does declare she often did not take breakfast with the rest of the family,with mrs bolden.

Just days before Lizzie was thinking about poisoning Father and Mrs Borden.
The day of the murder she changed her mind.

But the murders were almost suicidical for her.

One person was in and out home - bridget sulivan.

Had mrs borden shouted .., bridget would have come and probably lizzie would have to kill her either and events would have been much diferent.

10:45- 10:55 a.m. — Mr. Borden went up to his room. (pg. 21).

If borden had gone to the guest room looking for Mrs Bolden..,he would have discovered the corpse and I guess Bridget was still at home.

Just imagine if Mr borden found the corpse of his wife .

He would shout.., either faint or run downstairs...,and things would have turned up quite diferently.

After dad discovered Mrs Borden lizzie had 2 options:

Attack dad.
Not attack.
1- attack -If Lizzie atacked her dad Bridget would confront her or seek help .

If a fight takes place between lizzie and 2 people probably she might not have won .

Or Bridget might have run out of home to seek help.

Either way Lizzie was framed.

2 not attack

If she decided not to confront dad and bridget she might be framed either.

Her dad knew fully well about the disagreements of daughter and ex wife and probably he would have made Mrs borden last wish -to write a new will.

The way events unfold is amazing.

Lizzie hair had no blood. Her face,hands, had no blood.
And she had butchered 2 people in the same morning.

Only her under skirt had a very very small drop of human blood.

The door of the home was not broked,forced.

When lizzie was arrested after the murder she does not reacts or plead her innocence.

At that moment she was convinced that it was it- she had been caught.

When she was declared not guilty by the tribunal ..., she starts crying. Her sock must have been enourmous since she knew she was guilty and was expecting to be sentenced to death.

I am convinced the crime was done with lots of rage .

relationships in that home had reached a boiling point.

Mrs borden was not yelding and Mr borden was preparing to do a new will.

.

nbcatlover · Post by **nbcatlover** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:36 am

That's what the police and the district attorney thought when they indicted her for murder.

You should come and visit Fall River. You'd feel right at home...there are many Portuguese in this area.

In Lizzie's day, there was a lot of prejudice against the newest immigrants and the first reports suspected that a "Portagee" had committed the crime.

I'm of Portuguese descent myself so I didn't appreciate our role in the case.

Welcome!

Solitarioh2005 · Post by **Solitarioh2005** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:05 am

nbcatlover @ Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:36 am wrote:That's what the police and the district attorney thought when they indicted her for murder.

You should come and visit Fall River. You'd feel right at home...there are many Portuguese in this area.

In Lizzie's day, there was a lot of prejudice against the newest immigrants and the first reports suspected that a "Portagee" had committed the crime.

I'm of Portuguese descent myself so I didn't appreciate our role in the case.

Welcome!

Thanks a lot for your nice message.

When a crime takes place in a community sometimes peoples first instinct is to believe that
no one in their community could have done it.
Since the portuguese were the newcommers at the time..., that explains the suspicions against a portuguese.

There are many americans of portuguese descendent.

Portuguese settled everywhere,lol.

On another note : How doo you think Lizzie managed to kill 2 persons and appear with no trace of blood during the wholle morning ?

It is no small achievement.

Blood was all over the place Mr Borden was killed.

Despite that in a matter of minutes after the murder she managed to appear composed and with not a single drop of blood in shoes.., face.., ears.., hair or nails.

How did she managed to do it twice in that morning , in case she actually did the murders ?

I am convinced she was the murderer ..,but she had just one very very small spot of blood in her underskirt.
And as far as I am aware she had no time to wash . It is not easy to take out blood from nails and hair and it is impossible to do it in very few minutes

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:36 am

Allo! Boa vinda!

Que cidade em Portugal?

Eu sou de Paris....

Solitarioh2005 · Post by **Solitarioh2005** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:42 am

Audrey @ Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:36 am wrote:Allo! Boa vinda!

Que cidade em Portugal?

Eu sou de Paris....

Olá. Eu vivo em Lisboa.

Onde aprendeu português? You speak portuguese. Where did you learn to talk portuguese ?

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:45 am

I never did formally... Which is why it is so deplorable!

Coming from Europe, as you know-- there is more emphasis on learning the language of your neighbors.

Your English is good....

Salut!

Solitarioh2005 · Post by **Solitarioh2005** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:34 am

Audrey @ Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:45 am wrote:I never did formally... Which is why it is so deplorable!

Coming from Europe, as you know-- there is more emphasis on learning the language of your neighbors.

Your English is good....

Salut!

I understood your portuguese sentence. And the portuguese language is not an easy one.
Congratulations .
When it comes to my english ,I wish it were better.

Often I do not fully grasp the meaning of more elaborate sentences and texts.

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:01 am

I never thought of trying to get Bridget out of the house for a dress sale so she could be alone to kill her father! Thats a great theory. And you are right, lizzie and her stepmother never got along. I think that was largely due to Emma. Lizzie's biological mother died when she was two and emma was eight, so lizzie never knew her mother. She got what she knew from Emma. And Emma wasn't to fond of Abby(step mother).

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:54 pm

Emma was more like 12 when her mother died.
Sarah died March 26, 1863.
Emma was born on March 1, 1851.
Andrew re-married (to Abby) June 6, 1864, when Emma was 13 1/4.

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:27 am

YUp you are right, Kat. She was more like 11. Dont know what I was thinking. I have read that a millon or so times.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:40 pm

Technically, Emma had been 12 for 25 days when her mother died- but I remember you count the age differently, don't you? You start at 1, I think?

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:09 pm

From Solitarioh2005:

"Why did lizzie ask Bridget if she was going out? Why did she actually tried that she got in the afternoon teling about a sale of dress goods. Lizzie wanted to be alone with father so that she could kill him"

I think thats a great theory. Know witnesses, because Abby was already dead.

"The reationship was bad between Ms. Borden and Lizzie. Mrs. Borden had persauded Mr. Borden to make a new new will. For Lizzie that was about the worst thing anyone could do to her."

I think that is another good reason to kill Mrs. Borden. Lizzie though that all that money and things were rightfully hers and Emmas. And to give it to someone who was technically not related to them was just outragous to her.

Smudgeman · Post by **Smudgeman** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:26 pm

Maybe that is why Andrew had so much money on him that day, he was preparing to make a new will. This topic is on another thread, but I wonder if this was THE thing that sparked the murders?