The Less Delicate Features of Victorian Life

[Allen]

There is one thing I usually have a hard time picturing when I think of the day of the murders, and that is the slop buckets that are mentioned. I know what they are and what their purpose is, and I had a general idea of what they would look like, but couldn't actually visualize it in my mind. Victoria Lincoln described them to an extent in her book A Private Disgrace as a possible hiding place for incriminating evidence. I wondered how likely this could be. So I looked for pictures of both antique slop buckets and chamber pots today. I even found some for sale on ebay. I guess it's true that you can find just about everything on ebay. Here are some of the results that I found.

Slop buckets:

http://www.vickimillsantiques.co.uk/viewitems/5/52

http://www.stokesayware.com/dhm-3.htm

http://www.flowblue.co.uk/viewitems/7/84/

http://www.feljoy-antiques.co.uk/spode.htm

http://www.rosssbelfast.com/ArtSales/0043/lot225.htm



Chamber Pots:

http://jkor.com/antique/collect2.html

http://www.aaawt.com/html/mad_ads/mad/html/nov_03.html

http://www.englishtrunkshowco.com/categ ... uctoid=421

http://www.mysticallady.com/product/12915

[diana]

Those slop buckets aren't cheap, are they? And they're much more decorative than I envisioned. The chamber pots seem to cost quite a bit less -- but are not as appealing somehow. Wouldn't Lizzie be amazed to know how much those 'necessaries' are worth today?!

Thanks, Melissa.

[DWilly]

I also think they look a lot nicer than what I had pictured in my mind. I visions of just a plain gray bucket.

Another thing on slop buckets. In one of the books I read, either on Lincoln or Mary Walker, they told about how they had a huge problem with people just taking those slop pails and dumping them in the street. Very unhealthy. Didn't Andrew just dump his out in the backyard near the Pear Tree? I'm pretty sure Lizzie was a bit more careful where she dumped hers.

[Tracie]

I have a slop bucket and didn't even know it!!! I've kept kitchen tools in it on the counter--yuck!!! It doesn't have a cover so I've never put food in--thank god.

When I was growing up, my parents bought a house that was around 100 years old (in 1966) and the three bedrooms each had a chamber pot in the closet. We were told what they were, but we didn't believe it.

Interesting that they have such nice designs on them. I guess that is what fooled me to in the beginning.

Tracie

[Angel]

I'd like to know how the hell one balances oneself on such a thing. And is it kept on the floor, or does one straddle it on top of a chair? How revolting.

[1bigsteve]

I'd like to know how the hell one balances oneself on such a thing. And is it kept on the floor, or does one straddle it on top of a chair? How revolting.

I've been wondering the same thing, Angel. There must have been a lot of "wet" carpets in those days. "Steady...steady...hold it...bomb's away!" Didn't they have chairs in those days with a hole in the seat and a ledge to put the pot on? It seems I've seen photos of those before.

-1bigsteve (o:

[Susan]

I've always wondered that too, especially since I read that chamber pots were stored under the bed. This site says that one "perched" on the chamber pot itself. Must have been mighty cold during the winter months!

"One did not always have to walk to the privy on these occasions, however. Instead, one could use a ceramic chamber pot. It functioned like an indoor toilet that did not flush—one perched upon it for defecation or used it as a urinal and then the "slop jar" was emptied into the outhouse. Some chamber pots were decorated with lacy covers along the edge of the bowl called silencers and presumably muffled the noise of clanking of the top upon the bowl at night so that others weren't awakened by its use."

From this site: http://www.madehow.com/Volume-5/Toilet.html

[Harry]

Someone should have told Andrew the slops were emptied into the outhouse, not the back yard.

Bridget at the Prelim (p6) testified about Andrew on the morning of the 4th:

Q. You did not see where he went in the back yard either?
A. He went in the barn and got some water.
Q. Is there a faucet in the barn?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. City water?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. What did he do with the water?
A. Took a slop pail out, and threw it all over the yard.
Q. You mean he emptied some slops?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Wherebouts did he empty the slops?
A. Right out in the yard.
Q. Then drew some water into the pail?
A. Yes Sir.

There was an outhouse in the barn yet he chose to empty the slops in the yard. Strange man that Andrew Borden.

[Kat]

We had 2 chamber pots but never a slop bucket. (As antiques).

It's my understanding that the chamber pot is round and wide and a bit deep, and probably would have some water in the bottom to cover the contents when used. It would *fit* most behinds. You could sit pretty comfortably on the ones with the fluted or rippled edges. Then store it. Ours never had a top that I recall. (Ours were real but were decorative nowadays).

A slop pail was not for sitting on. It was to store any used water to take outside or to a privy or a sink, depending on its contents.
If it was wash water, you would pour that into the slop bucket. If the *output* overnight was urine, you could pour that into there too. The lip on the edge would prevent spillage as you carried it outside- downstairs, or to keep it from sloshing around as it was carried.
I would think that if one emptied their chamber pot into the slop bucket and eventually took that to dump it's contents, if there was solid matter that would go into the privy or water closet.

It's a good bet that what Andrew dumped in the yard was wash water and/or pee. Any urine would be diluted by the wash water too.

[Allen]

I'd like to know how the hell one balances oneself on such a thing. And is it kept on the floor, or does one straddle it on top of a chair? How revolting.

I've been wondering the same thing, Angel. There must have been a lot of "wet" carpets in those days. "Steady...steady...hold it...bomb's away!" Didn't they have chairs in those days with a hole in the seat and a ledge to put the pot on? It seems I've seen photos of those before.

-1bigsteve (o:

I think I found what you were talking about, surprisingly enough, again on ebay. ( I admit it, I like looking around on there.)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Bedside-Com ... dZViewItem

[1bigsteve]

Thats it, Allen. That is what I remember. Not the exact style but that is what I was refering to. Thanks.

-1bigsteve (o:

[Elizabeth Ann]

I can honestly say I had to use a chamber pot when I was a kid. My paternal grandparents lived in the country and their house did not have an indoor bathroom (there was a sink in the kitchen with plumbing, that was it!). We used the outhouse during the day but at night there was a pot in each room. My grandma had rugs she sat these on so they could be changed easily in case of spills. In the morning we would empty these in the outhouse. My kids cannot even imagine such "primitive" living!

[1bigsteve]

Yea, the "good old days" right Elizabeth? I've never used a chamber pot but I have kept a "pee jug" under my bed. I just hated those trips to the bathroom.

In many ways I loved those early days when life was simple. My Mom's parents had a house out in farm country. My Grandmother and I would travel around the area stopping to pick up tomatoes, figs, lettace, corn, watermelon or whatever was in season. She knew all the farmers. She would cook whatever we picked up for dinner that night and boy could she cook!! After dinner she would send me into the backyard to pick peaches off the tree that my uncle planted when he was a kid and she would make peaches 'n cream to go on top of the home made ice cream she made. At twilight you could see a beautiful sunset and smell the fresh cut grain. Life was good growing up in the '50's and early '60's.

We washed-up and combed our hair before sitting down at the table for each meal. We knew how to say "yes Mame", "no Mame", "yes Sir", and "no Sir". We stepped in to help with whatever needed to be done without having to be asked. We knew how to say "please" and "thank you." Kids now days are raised in front of violent video games and filthy movies or spend their time on skateboards. They don't know what it's like to eat the food they grow themselves, make their own ice cream or just sit on a porch with their family and experience a beautiful sunset together.

Those were the best years of my life. I'm just thankful we has a toilet that flushed.

-1bigsteve (o:

[Elizabeth Ann]

Ah... yes, life in the 50's & 60's! In my opinion, we "boomers" saw the last of "simpler" times in our country. We have made outstanding advances in science and technology, but you know, I could give up an evening on my pc to go catch fireflies in a mayonaisse jar again! Summer evenings were spent on the front porch with my grandparents singing and telling stories.
I was in second grade before we actually had a tv in our home! My kids look at my hubby and I in disbelief when we say our TV was black and white and didn't have 100's of channels and that the stations actually signed off at night!
The pace of life was so much slower, manners were still important and the principal at school had a wooden paddle hanging in his office that you knew he would use if needed!

[Constantine]

Ah... yes, life in the 50's & 60's! In my opinion, we "boomers" saw the last of "simpler" times in our country. We have made outstanding advances in science and technology, but you know, I could give up an evening on my pc to go catch fireflies in a mayonaisse jar again!

Anyone else out there ever had a mustard plaster?

[1bigsteve]

Ah... yes, life in the 50's & 60's! In my opinion, we "boomers" saw the last of "simpler" times in our country. We have made outstanding advances in science and technology, but you know, I could give up an evening on my pc to go catch fireflies in a mayonaisse jar again!

Anyone else out there ever had a mustard plaster?

No, thank goodness but I had the cod liver oil pills!! Remember that big brown gallon jug? Oh, how loverly!!

My grandmother had one I'll never forget. It was so big that top shelf it was sitting on was sagging. "Stevie... don't you want to take your cod liver oil pills? No, wicked witch of the west, I don't!" They didn't have the sealed capsules like today. They just oozed oil through that gooey skin. She'd pop the lid off and you could smell that stuff for a week. That stuff tasted so gawd awfull!! I think she bought it in 1920. What was it good for anyway? I think she said it was to prevent constipation or something. After a couple of those pills, I didn't know whether to sit on the toilet or stick my head in it. I thought I was going to have to live my life with a cork stuck up my butt. That was the rankenist, stinkenist stuff I ever had. I had to eat her mangy cat's food to get the taste out of my mouth.

You younger people don't know the fun you are missing.

-1bigsteve (o:

[Constantine]

I never had cod liver oil pills, but I do remember the liquid vitamins my mother used to give me. There were two kinds: an oily yellow one and a sweeter reddish purple one that we called "pep tonic." Fortunately, I liked the taste of both.

[Kat]

I remember Paragoric, Ipacac, alcohol rubs for fever, calamine lotion and oatmeal baths for poison ivy.

[Tracie]

I liked paragoric!!! We had it for upset stomachs and rubbed on our gums for erupting teeth. I remember, mercurachrome (orange liquied for cuts) or metholate (for the same but stung like a bugger). If we had a bad belly from throwing up we got egg nog. Egg and milk with alittle sugar and vanilla to drink to keep us from being too weak and dehydrated. And we used the big pot that the boiled dinner was cooked in for a throw-up bucket while lying on the couch. If we had an earache my mom would heat up some oil (I'm not sure what kind) and would put drops in our ears to relive the pain. Joseph's Orange baby aspirins for fever. I hated how they tasted.

Thanks for the memories, I haven't thought about this stuff in years.

Tracie

[Angel]

I remember my mother giving my dad what she called a "hot toddy" during the infrequent times he got sick with the flu. It was a glass of heated water, lemon and whiskey. I'm sure my dad knew it didn't do anything, but he drank it anyway because it made him care less that he was sick. lol

[Constantine]

I drink hot toddies often enough when I am not sick. (It's a rather popular drink in Ireland, incidentally, where it is usually called a hot whiskey. It is usually served with cloves, which are often studded onto the lemon slice.)

[Elizabeth Ann]

Hot Toddies were daddy's answer to all ailments. How could I not listen to my daddy!

[keim]

Oh man, I remember mercurachrome too! It was applied with a little glass rod which was dipped in the stuff.
I had to take Castor Oil some times.

My 14 year old son asked why one the old TV shows we were watching was filmed in black and white, when movies in those days were in color. I enjoyed his disconnect that projectors could show black & white or color movies, but most TVs were just shades of gray.

Back to the pots. Did they have water in them, or did a person use it dry? I would think water would make the clean up a little less horrible.

I hope Lizzie never walked around the yard in bare feet!

[Kat]

I've had bedside pottys in my house for an invalid, and you do put water in the bottom. Also a little soap (but I don't know if they did that in the old days).
Maybe they added "Toilet water?" (You know- like perfume). Maybe that is the origin of the term?

[Elizabeth Ann]

mercurachrome

OW, I remember the pain just seeing that work! If I fell and skinned my knees my mom or grandmon would wash it out with peroxide and then put that nasty red stuff on. I would scream and I am sure the neighbors thought I was being beaten!

I miss the old black salve, used for drawing out splinters and healing. I forget what was in but something that apparently wasn't good for us. I had an old jar that I had in my medicine chest from my Grandma's house. I was sad when I used the last of that...end of an era! LOL

[Allen]

I know what you are talking about Elizabeth Ann, that's just what we call it, drawing salve. We can still buy it ( or maybe it's just a version of it) around here. It's black, thick, and sort of reminds me of tar. I haven't ever used it, but my grandmother and my best friends mother still use it.

[Susan]

I miss the old black salve, used for drawing out splinters and healing. I forget what was in but something that apparently wasn't good for us. I had an old jar that I had in my medicine chest from my Grandma's house. I was sad when I used the last of that...end of an era! LOL

I had to do a search as I never heard of drawing salve or black salve before, apparently different versions are still available.

"Drawing salve became successful during the period of widely advertised medicinals and balms of the late 1800s. Catchy slogans, bright packaging, and sworn testimonials from satisfied customers littered the old-fashioned pharmacies. The line between medicine and fraud was not as firmly drawn as it is today. However, this salve, otherwise known as Black Ointment, or Icthyol Salve, was an effective blend of herbs, roots, extracts and oils, which actually serve to soothe skin.

While still unregulated by the FDA, and not considered a medicine in the United States, over-the-counter demand for drawing salve remains high. Many families consider it a staple of their medicine cabinet, and use it liberally when children encounter bee stings, splinters, or rose bushes.

The most popular brands of drawing salve list their main ingredients as ichthammol, phenyl alcohol, arnica montana, and several familiar herbs such as echinacea, calendula, etc. These are combined with skin-enriching vitamin E, antiseptic bergamot oil, and anti-inflammatory comfrey oil, in a base of beeswax. Ichthammol, the most active ingredient, is considered a medicine in some countries. It's natural because it is actually extracted from the rock schist. It softens skin by weakening it slightly, which increases circulation. When more blood goes to the area, the wound will heal faster by ejecting any pus or irritant"

[Elizabeth Ann]

Thanks for the history! A good Victorian remedy!
I never thought to check for this online! I did a search for this yesterday and found several places that sell it! Going to restock the shelf!

[Constantine]

In my college days, I went to a Halloween party as the devil. I colored my head and hands with mercurochrome. It was a trifle difficult to wash off afterwards. I looked okay, but I was a bit ruddy for a day or two.

[1bigsteve]

I've always wondered that too, especially since I read that chamber pots were stored under the bed. This site says that one "perched" on the chamber pot itself. Must have been mighty cold during the winter months!

"One did not always have to walk to the privy on these occasions, however. Instead, one could use a ceramic chamber pot. It functioned like an indoor toilet that did not flush—one perched upon it for defecation or used it as a urinal and then the "slop jar" was emptied into the outhouse. Some chamber pots were decorated with lacy covers along the edge of the bowl called silencers and presumably muffled the noise of clanking of the top upon the bowl at night so that others weren't awakened by its use."

From this site: http://www.madehow.com/Volume-5/Toilet.html

My dad said that, in his childhood, "Chamber Pots" were referred to as "Thunder Mugs." I have no idea why. He told me that when his uncle was a boy he was crawling under someone's bed and split open his upper lip on the edge of a thunder mug.

His Aunts and family never let him hear the end of it.

-1bigsteve (o:

[SallyG]

When my boys were little, we used to go up to our Adirondack Camp in upstate NY. The house we used was built in the 1800's and had about 22 rooms, and many bedrooms. A bathroom was tacked on down on the first floor in the back of the house around the 1940's or so, claw footed tub and all. The bedrooms we used were up on the third floor, and in the middle of the night, the prospect of going down 2 flights of stairs, and down the winding hallway to the bathroom was not very appealing. I rummaged through the attic and found a treasure trove of chamber pots, slop pails, bowl and pitcher sets, etc. I secured several and placed them under the beds for use at night. At the bottom of the 3rd floor staircase, there was a little trough built into the floor with a faucet. In the mornings, I emptied the chamber pots and rinsed them out. The kids are adults now and still spend part of their summers up there, and still use the chamber pots at night!

[GrandmasBlackSalve]

www.GrandmasBlackSalve.com

I wanted to let you all know that there is still such a salve. Actually there are a few versions. My Grandma's version is from the 1800's also. My great great great great great grandparents. My Grandma Helen was the last one that we knew of in our family that made it. She passed away about 8 years ago. I decided last Christmas to make a batch for my family and friends and self. I then thought I might as well try to bottle it and sell it on ebay. Since January 1st I have sold over 100 jars!! I am even patent pending!

So please check it out on either my website www.GrandmasBlackSalve.com
or by going to Ebay or google and searching for Grandma's Black Salve.

Thanks and have a great day!!

[Fargo]

1Big Steve Chamber Pots were called Thunder Mugs because of the sound they made when they were used. The sound that echoed from that metal pot sounded like Thunder. We had on in the camper when I was a kid.

For TV we had 1 channel (you could get it without cable as there was no cable here) and the TV was black and white.

The station signed off at about midnight and came back one at about 6 am. That station still keeps the same hours today and it it is still the only station available here without cable or satilite. Although now we have colour and several other channels available from cable and satilite.

[RayS]

I don't remember the name of the ointment they sell nowadays (no prescription needed) in stores. But it will heal and seldom leave a scar.
I'm sure its easier to find and use today. Some things are old-fashioned in fact.

[Pippi]

wow, interesting turn of topic!
on "how to go" I don't know about you all, but I do just fine in nature, squat and go. The bowl is big enough to squat over so that aim shouldn't be an issue after the first couple of times minus the occasional sibling joke of pushing you over.

I have a much harder time figuring out how one wore split bottom undergarments and kept THEM from getting splattered on unless one really held the garments open...I am not blessed to own a pair and it's a topic I've found little information on :)

On chamber pots in chairs, I do remember seeing a "fancy" wooden one in a museum. If I remember correctly it would be something that the upper middle class might have but was very much a luxury item in comparison to the cheap pots stored away under beds and the like. There are quite a few still around for sale.

black salve! my mother swore by it for splinters. I was looking for some the other day THANK YOU ALL for the ingredients list so I can go look for it under another name!!