You mean she didn't die of a heart attack? I could have sworn she did.
Lizzie's not going to wake me in the middle of the night for more medicine, is she? Oh that's right the recreation is only from 8 to 12 on the morning of the 4th.
Moderator: Adminlizzieborden
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.Angel @ Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:33 pm wrote:An understatement, if I've ever heard one.RayS @ Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:12 pm wrote: I've said it before and will say it again.
I'm a little confused by this statement. Do you mean that you assume the furniture was already 30 years out of date when they moved into the house in 1872, which would put it around 1842? I had always thought it was considered 30 years of out date by 1892 standards when there was an article published which contained details concerning the inside of the house after the murders, which would put the period around 1860-1862 during the civil war years . Is this what you mean? I know the sofa that was in the sitting room was said to be covered in mohair cloth. I believe this was popular during the civil war, as president Lincoln had a sofa covered in mohair. If this is true then it is interesting, because it may mean that Sarah Borden had picked out most of the furniture that Abby Borden was currently living with before she died. I've been looking but I can't for the life of me find this article I am remembering concerning the interior of the house.Shelley @ Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:53 pm wrote:Actually we know Abby bought the lace curtains for the parlor (Rebello), there was a pull chain water closet in the cellar for the girls (privy in the barn), and the furniture was said to be 30 years out of style when they moved into the house in 1872, so we are looking at Empire style stuff.
I will remember to get a photo of the lamps next week.
Shelley @ Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:55 am wrote:That is my understanding- that it was already out of date when they moved in - it was the stuff from the Ferry Street house from when Andrew and Sarah had gotten married back in December 26, 1845. Interesting to see it took Sarah 6 years to bear a child (Emma), then a span of 7 years to bear another in 1858 (Alice), then Lizzie 2 years later. Of course Sarah might have had numerous miscarriages in between - we know she apparently suffered and eventually died from "female" complications.
Yes, it is ironic Abby must have had a great deal of Sarah's furniture. Of course, as a spinster, she would only have had some few of her mother's pieces maybe from her family home- with Oliver Gray remarrying, he needed to keep his own household intact.
Thank you for the information Shelley. Though maybe I should rephrase my question. What I meant to ask was where do I find the information that says the furnishings were already 30 years out of date when the Borden's moved into the house in 1872?Shelley @ Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:26 pm wrote:I think it may have been Augusta Tripp (who tried SO hard not to say anything bad about the girls in her witness statement) who indicated Abby was not mistress of her own house. When Abby was in Swansea at the farm, Augusta came to visit a week, and observed the Borden women were not sympathetic with each other. My heart breaks for old Abby- she had a secondhand husband, family and furniture. She bought the lace parlor curtains with her money. I believe the piano was purchased not long after they moved in 1872 for the parlor for Lizzie.
I have never bought into Emma and Lizzie as sweet, frustrated ladies- I think the pair were pit vipers to be frank, -Emma worse than Lizzie. My mother remarried when I was five- and I did not think much of the new stepfather-so I have a clue what was what in the Borden family. The Elizabeth Montgomery movie gives quite a different, and I believe highly inaccurate portrayal of Emma. Her witness statement was an eye opener to me.


Thanks for the information Shelley.Shelley @ Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:04 pm wrote:Interesting too, that although Abby was of childbearing age- we have no evidence she was ever pregnant in all their years of marriage. Imagine if Abby had delivered a half-sister to Emma and Lizzie! Poor kid!
--Allen/MissyThank you for the information Shelley. Though maybe I should rephrase my question. What I meant to ask was where do I find the information that says the furnishings were already 30 years out of date when the Borden's moved into the house in 1872?
In the 1880 Census Thomas Bowles is listed as about age 21, coming from England, his occupation is listed as a teamer, his relationship to the head of household as something other than a direct relationship, and the members of the household are listed as:Harry @ Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:51 am wrote:Thanks Shelley. She's listed as "Addie" Cheetham in Porter and Spiering. To make it even more confusing she's not listed in the 1892 City Directory but an "Estelle Cheetham, widow of Thomas..." is listed as boarding at 90 Second Street. Thomas is listed as passing away in 1891.
I'm surprised the prosecution didn't call her as a witness. She could have testified that she had seen no one in the Borden yard from 10 to 10:55.
He was indeed. I am sorry I didn't specify this information. I have quite a few of these census records saved to my computer which pertain to the people who are associated with this case. When I opened this one up to check it out, I then went back and retrieved the information about Estelle and Thomas Cheetham from the same source.Shelley @ Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:47 am wrote:Hmm- wasn't Tommy Bowles the young man Adelaide Churchill approached at Hall's livery across the street to get help? That would surely make sense then.