A career for lizzie

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:17 pm

I have been thinking, what would have been a good career for lizzie, after her father died. I think she would have been a good actress. Seemed she liked to run with that crowd. Or teaching since she liked kids. But I don't think that we will ever know she died before she could go to work. lol

shakiboo · Post by **shakiboo** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:28 pm

hello everybody! I'm a newbie to you all but have been reading your posts etc. for almost 2 years now, and feel like your all friends!!! This site is addictive!! I first came in contact with Lizzie when I was around 14 years old and was horrified and fascinated all at the same time. Then two years ago I got my computer and typed in her name and found this site, and have been totally lost in Lizziedom ever since!!! I wish I could say that I was caught up with everything you all know but there's just no way to do that I'm afraid.......I'm just so glad to be a part of your forum and hope I will be able to learn more and maybe add something to it!!! Now to the topic, from all that I've read about Lizzie, I don't believe she'd have been a good teacher, she seemed to be to concerned with herself, and good teachers are those who are able to give of themselves. Had she been raised differently, maybe, but I don't think she had a chance to really form any kind of connection to or with anyone while she was growing up. It seems she received little or no affection as a child, and that's when we learn are most important basics as to who and what we are, her childhood was cold and pretty bleak. so it's no wonder she became that way.

bobarth · Post by **bobarth** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:32 pm

Shakiboo, love that screen name. I am new and love this forum too. Very Very addicting!!!!

I think Lizzie would have made a great animal activist since she gave so much to the humane society upon her death. Or maybe a librarian since she loved books too.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:36 pm

HI!

I agree about Lizzie not being *teacher material.*

If Andrew Borden had died and Lizzie had no money, what kind of work would have suited her?
Is that the question, snokkums?
If that's the question, we might look at what Emma and Lizzie's friends had to do when their fathers died, or when they were on their own.

Mrs. Churchill took in boarders.
Helen Brownell in Fairhaven was a dressmaker (R. 83)

She couldn't just pick a job back then. It depended on what was acceptable, right?
Weren't there very few women store clerks still, back in 1892?
Maybe there were jobs like teacher, stenographer, writer, seamstress, actor, nanny, cook, companion.

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:43 pm

Any millionaire heiress does not need a "career" unless she choses one.
What "career" do you suggest for Paris Hilton? Does her name sound like a work of fiction? "Suzy Motel Six"?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:52 pm

Sorry bobarth, you were not there when I was posting.

A Librarian sounds good.
How about a traveling preacher? Did women do that back then?
We also would want to know how much education was required for certain acceptable jobs.

bobarth · Post by **bobarth** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:01 pm

Hi Kat.

I know to be a librarian now takes many years of college, not sure if it would have been that way back then or not.

The traveling preacher woman that is priceless, back then they probably would have hung her for sure.

shakiboo · Post by **shakiboo** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:33 pm

Thanks bobarth, for the welcome! I wonder how she might have faired as a "Ladies" travel companion, she seemed able to conduct herself as a lady, and she knew how to dress well, and seemed to enjoy traveling, but then again that might be too close to what she wanted for herself (being a Lady) and might have brought out the worst in her ie. envie, recentment, etc.

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:26 pm

Kat @ Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:36 pm wrote:HI!
I agree about Lizzie not being *teacher material.*

If Andrew Borden had died and Lizzie had no money, what kind of work would have suited her?
Is that the question, snokkums?
If that's the question, we might look at what Emma and Lizzie's friends had to do when their fathers died, or when they were on their own.

Mrs. Churchill took in boarders.
Helen Brownell in Fairhaven was a dressmaker (R. 83)

She couldn't just pick a job back then. It depended on what was acceptable, right?
Weren't there very few women store clerks still, back in 1892?
Maybe there were jobs like teacher, stenographer, writer, seamstress, actor, nanny, cook, companion.

Not really a question just a thought on what might she choose if she had to work. I can't picture Lizzie as a dresmaker. Maybe a companion, or nanny. But if she is not really suited to being a teacher, then I can't see her being a nanny. Something clerical maybe.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:51 pm

Actually I could see her married before I can see her getting a job or career.
I don't know if they had pre-nuptial agreements back then tho.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:53 pm

How about a writer?
There were rumors she was writing a play.
I don't know how good she would be- maybe a *popular* writer rather than of literature.

shakiboo · Post by **shakiboo** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:44 pm

Oh, now that would be an excellant find laying around in your attic, a partial play written by Lizzie Borden!!! There must be more stuff then what's been found so far, what happend to all her personal things?? All the papers etc that were in her desk for instance, but who would have thought, back then, the interest she would be generating over a hundred years later???? She'd probably be totally amazed by it!

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:51 pm

I was looking at her will in Rebello's book recently and found out she had had a cuckoo clock!

Haulover · Post by **Haulover** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:16 am

somehow i CAN see lizzie as an actress. i would love to see what she looked like on film. those looks and eyes we've read about -- imagine them in close-up.
more practically, she might have been a librarian. she might have taught children. if a preacher, she would have had to be a speaker -- i don't know -- she said so little.

as it turned out, i presume she decided she couldn't be anything public -- but her infatuation with theater must tell us something. didn't she live in a fantasy world -- didn't she say something to this effect in one of her letters? daydreaming in her chair on the porch? this is the part of lizzie that i like -- the part i could have gotten on with.

to spend a day with lizzie on her porch.....

DWilly · Post by **DWilly** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:30 pm

It's hard for me to picture Lizzie having a career. I just can't see her being disiplined enough to get up and out of bed and to a job every day. Seems like I read somewhere that Lizzie liked to sleep in late. If that's true I can't see her dragging herself into a classroom to teach kids first thing in the morning.

As for the play thing. I don't know if that rumor was true or not. It was said Lizzie was writing a play for Nance O'Neil to be in. On the one hand I can picture Lizzie wanting to write a play more or less about herself and having Nance play this sort of tragic woman type of thing. On the other hand I can't see Lizzie actually finishing the play. Again, I think she was too lazy to actually get anything done.

Angel · Post by **Angel** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:44 am

DWilly @ Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:30 pm wrote:It's hard for me to picture Lizzie having a career. I just can't see her being disiplined enough to get up and out of bed and to a job every day. Seems like I read somewhere that Lizzie liked to sleep in late. If that's true I can't see her dragging herself into a classroom to teach kids first thing in the morning.

As for the play thing. I don't know if that rumor was true or not. It was said Lizzie was writing a play for Nance O'Neil to be in. On the one hand I can picture Lizzie wanting to write a play more or less about herself and having Nance play this sort of tragic woman type of thing. On the other hand I can't see Lizzie actually finishing the play. Again, I think she was too lazy to actually get anything done.

I agree. From what everyone wrote about her, she was not a dazzling personality. If she was not slightly odd like a lot of people have described her, then she was at least totally nondescript, with no particular talent or appeal. I cannot romanticize her simply because she was involved in such a dramatic and bizarre situation the one time in her life.

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:31 am

Maybe she wasn't descilined enough because what we know of her, she didn't have to work. As for being nondescript, well that no job qualificqation.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:12 am

There were people who thought she was a good conversationalist. Harry and I talked about that and thought maybe that meant she was a good listener.

Anyway, thinking of her possibly trying to be a writer is not romantacising her. I bet a lot of single women in her day wrote things- even tried their hands at writing a play- for Nance O'Neil or not. I left Nance out, because it could have been before or after their friendship.
But still, she was enough of a *personality* to be friends with a famous actress.
I don't think of her as *nondescript*- that sounds more like Emma IMO.

DWilly · Post by **DWilly** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:58 am

Kat @ Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:12 am wrote:There were people who thought she was a good conversationalist. Harry and I talked about that and thought maybe that meant she was a good listener.
Anyway, thinking of her possibly trying to be a writer is not romantacising her. I bet a lot of single women in her day wrote things- even tried their hands at writing a play- for Nance O'Neil or not. I left Nance out, because it could have been before or after their friendship.
But still, she was enough of a *personality* to be friends with a famous actress.
I don't think of her as *nondescript*- that sounds more like Emma IMO.

The only thing thus far I have seen regarding Lizzie writing a play is in the stories that came out in June of 1905. Example:

" Lizzie Borden Left By Sister, Former writing Play For Nance O'Neil, Emma Borden Objects to Actress Entertainment of Theatrical People and to Coachman," Boston Hearld, June 4, 1905: 11----Rebello pg 311

Now again, I don't know for sure Lizzie was writing anything. If she was I doubt she ever finished it. Like I said, I don't think she had a work ethic that would enable her to.

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:04 am

Lizzie didn't need to have a work ethic, everything was provided for her. I think if the circumstances were different she probably would have them.
But I think that writing would suit her.

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:13 am

How about a society columnist or a theatre critic writing up reviews?

Angel · Post by **Angel** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:14 am

One has to have a certain amount of imagination if one is going to become a writer. Just looking at the way Lizzie handled her story with the murders doesn't make one think she was either quick on the draw or imaginative.