Lizzie a mom?

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:07 pm

I know that Lizzie liked kids, I have just was curious as to what kind of mom would she have been if she had kids. Wonder if she would have been strict or kind or what. Any ideas on this.

bobarth · Post by **bobarth** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:59 pm

OMG
That is so bizarre I was wondering about that this afternoon too. I am not sure she had any role model at all to prepare her for that job.

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:06 pm

She would be the same kind of mother that Emma was.
(Trick answer to trick question?)

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 2:59 pm

I think that she would have been a better mom than emma was to her. Sometimes when you have a real crappy childhood, you tend to be a better mom.

fliesnskies · Post by **fliesnskies** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:23 pm

I assume she'd be a fine mother. Emma could have been also, after all, she had to take care of baby Lizzie.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:40 pm

Hi!
Is this fine mother a Lizzie who killed or a Lizzie who did not kill?
I'm asking anyone who thinks she would be a good mom.
Meaning- does it mean that those who think she could be a good mother are those who think Lizzie did not murder anyone?

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:26 pm

Kat @ Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:40 pm wrote:Hi!
Is this fine mother a Lizzie who killed or a Lizzie who did not kill?
I'm asking anyone who thinks she would be a good mom.
Meaning- does it mean that those who think she could be a good mother are those who think Lizzie did not murder anyone?

This question is moot. I think there was a story about Lizzie getting engaged to a school teacher, but the publicity killed it.
I believe Lizzie was 100% Not Guilty. I'm sure her money would have helped her in raising kids. As good a mother as the average, if not better. She knew what it was like to have a stepmother.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:39 am

My question is valid- it's good to know sometimes where people stand.
I may be too black-and-white- but I don't think a killer would be a good mother.
But I don't want to assume that those who think she would be a good mother think Lizzie did not kill.

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:56 am

RayS @ Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:26 pm wrote:She knew what it was like to have a stepmother.

I hope you are not insinuating that all stepmothers are bad parents. Just because a child grows up with a stepmother does not mean she/he will make a better parent than their stepmother was. There are good stepmothers and bad stepmothers; same as there are good mothers and bad mothers.

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:34 am

Kat @ Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:39 am wrote:My question is valid- it's good to know sometimes where people stand.
I may be too black-and-white- but I don't think a killer would be a good mother.
But I don't want to assume that those who think she would be a good mother think Lizzie did not kill.

Your question is very valid, Kat, and a very good one. IMO: I believe that Lizzie did kill both her father and stepmother. I don't believe that Lizzie would have made a good mother, not because I believe she was a killer, but, because I see her as being too self-centered to be a good mother. A woman may kill to protect her child, however, that does not mean that she is a bad mother because she is a killer. On the other hand, I am in no way insinuating that all self-centered women make bad mothers. It is just that Lizzie has always struck me (no pun intended) as being all about me, me, me.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:35 pm

Lizzie is said to have liked children. But that is certainly not the same as being a good mother. It's easy to like something when you don't have the daily care or responsibility for it.

I think what twinsrwe says is right on. It is also my opinion that she was too self-centered and immature to be a good mother.

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:50 pm

twinsrwe @ Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:56 am wrote:
RayS @ Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:26 pm wrote:She knew what it was like to have a stepmother.
I hope you are not insinuating that all stepmothers are bad parents. Just because a child grows up with a stepmother does not mean she/he will make a better parent than their stepmother was. There are good stepmothers and bad stepmothers; same as there are good mothers and bad mothers.

Of course I'm not saying that. Its just that stepmother (but not stepfathers?) got a bad press ever since Cinderella wrote her memoirs.
In the 19th century it was usual for children to have lost parents. Diseases took the live of many, and remarriage was the norm.
There is a book "Orphan Train" that tells about history censored from the Official History books.

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:51 pm

Harry @ Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:35 pm wrote:Lizzie is said to have liked children. But that is certainly not the same as being a good mother. It's easy to like something when you don't have the daily care or responsibility for it.

I think what twinsrwe says is right on. It is also my opinion that she was too self-centered and immature to be a good mother.

HOW many of the very rich mothers personally cared for their children?
Having nannies, cooks, maid, etc. was the rule.
The real question is: does a lack of maternal or paternal affection affect a child for the worse?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:00 pm

That is not in question- I think the answer to that is obvious.

By killer-I mean The killer of the Bordens.
So I think I may be putting snokkums and fliesanskies on the spot.
But it's OK to say if you think Lizzie was innocent- tho I believe snokkums thinks she did it.
So snokkums seems to be saying that Lizzie would be a better mother to her own hypothetical children than Emma was to Lizzie- but I'm not sure I follow that logic.

I don't know- even killing in defense of your children has got to impact the person and the children forever.
Of course, that has got to be a horrible situation.

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 9:53 pm

RayS @ Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:50 am wrote:Its just that stepmother (but not stepfathers?) got a bad press ever since Cinderella wrote her memoirs.

Cinderella is a fairy tale! She did not exist, therefore, she did not write her memoirs. Most people can separate fantasy from the real world. In the real world, there are good stepmothers as well as bad stepmothers; this is also true of stepfathers.

fliesnskies · Post by **fliesnskies** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:42 pm

I believe that Lizzie didn't take and axe. So, I do feel she'd be a good mother.

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:11 pm

twinsrwe @ Sat Oct 07, 2006 9:53 pm wrote:
RayS @ Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:50 am wrote:Its just that stepmother (but not stepfathers?) got a bad press ever since Cinderella wrote her memoirs.
Cinderella is a fairy tale! She did not exist, therefore, she did not write her memoirs. Most people can separate fantasy from the real world. In the real world, there are good stepmothers as well as bad stepmothers; this is also true of stepfathers.

Ha-ha-ha-ha!!! Aren't we getting too serious now?
Legends are told by people because they contains some truth. I understand the original Grimm Brothers Fairy Tales couldn't be broadcast today, they are so violent and horrible. Imagine a young boy and girl pushing an old woman into a stove and cooking her alive!!! Enough to give you nightmares!
The moral is that even kind old ladies can be a threat to young children.
Oh, did I mention the part about cannibalism? Not unknown in the darker days of Europe.
PS
I hope you were not being serious, just "busting my chops"?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:43 am

Thanks fliesnskies for your honest answer.

bobarth · Post by **bobarth** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:15 pm

I dont think Lizzie did it, but I still dont think she is mother material. I think she came from a house that had very little love and just dont think she had very good role models to prepare her for the task of being a mom.

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:51 pm

bobarth @ Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:15 pm wrote:I dont think Lizzie did it, but I still dont think she is mother material. I think she came from a house that had very little love and just dont think she had very good role models to prepare her for the task of being a mom.

You never know, that very thing might have made her a good mother. You know, not having in love in the house, might have made be aware of what it was like to feel unloved. She might have spoiled the snot out of her kids. Or, it could have been the exact opposite. I guess we will never know.

bobarth · Post by **bobarth** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:01 pm

You could be right on with her being a great mom. Could you imagine what her poor child would have to endure though. Interesting question I do wish we knew more.

fliesnskies · Post by **fliesnskies** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:55 pm

You betcha Kat! :-)

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:23 pm

In Radin's book Lizzie took a liking to the neighbor boy and seemed to like the neighbor boys coming over for the pears so I think Lizzie had a soft spot for kids, or at least for boys, so I think she may have made a good Mother. I like to think so anyway.

-1bigsteve (o:

Angel · Post by **Angel** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:41 am

Good mothers bond with their children. Can you honestly see Lizzie bonding with anyone?

DWilly · Post by **DWilly** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:56 am

Angel @ Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:41 am wrote:Good mothers bond with their children. Can you honestly see Lizzie bonding with anyone?

I'm one of those people who thinks Lizzie murdered Andrew and Abby. I doubt a person who could brutally kill two people could then be a good mother. Lizzie put her own needs before everyone else's. Something a good mother would not do. When you have children you have to put their needs first. Something I doubt Lizzie could do.

Another thing. Although we have a few stories about Lizzie being nice to children. E.g. being nice to the little girl aboard the ship. We also have a story about her being unable to really deal with children. Case in point is when she was put in charge of a Sunday School class of Chinese boys. How bad could a group of little boys be back in the 1890s? I'm sure they acted up a little bit but small kids do have trouble staying still and you have to deal with that. I think when it really came down to it she could not deal with kids.

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:31 pm

Well maybe she wouldn't be a good mother. She was self-centered. I mean just cuz you like kids, doesn't make you a good mom. It's like saying that because you have a college degree, it makes you a better parent. And she really doesn't look like the type of person that bonds with too many people.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:32 am

It seems she liked other people's children just fine.
Like the story that she would appear in her car on the first day of school and give that boy presents. And Russell Lake liked her, and says he was well-treated by her. I think he says he got his first 50 cents from Lizzie. Some of his stories are in the back of William's Casebook of Family and Crime.

People's memories are weird tho, because apparently Lizbeth was in some property dispute with Lake's mother across the street, but Russell never mentions it. It's all about how he was well-treated, and his nice memories...

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:23 am

Lizzie and I must be kindred spirits: I like other peoples children just fine too. Never heard that she was in a property dispute with anyone tho. Thats new information for me. Thanks.

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:44 pm

snokkums @ Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:31 pm wrote:Well maybe she wouldn't be a good mother. She was self-centered. I mean just cuz you like kids, doesn't make you a good mom. It's like saying that because you have a college degree, it makes you a better parent. And she really doesn't look like the type of person that bonds with too many people.

She would probably be as good as anyone else in her circumstanes. Rich with a cook, maid, and nurse. Motherhood is easier that way.
No, this is not personal experience.