Poor Abby.
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- Allen
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Poor Abby.
Inquest testimony of Augusta D. Tripp page 141:
Q. When was the last time you were there, do you think?
A. To make a visit?
Q. Yes.
A. I went there the 13th of July of last year.
Q. Not this year?
A. No sir. I made a call there this year, but not a visit.
Q. How long did you stay when you were there the 13th of July?
A. I went Monday and came back Saturday.
Q. You were there nearly a week?
A. Yes sir.
Q.Was Miss Lizzie at home?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And Miss Emma?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And the old people?
A. Mrs. Borden I did not see.
Q. Where was she?
A. In Swansea I think they said.
Q.During the whole time?
A. Yes sir.
I found this passage of testimony interesting, because it seems to imply that Abby spent some time in Swansea by herself without any other members of the household. This was my interpretation at least. After reading this another idea found its way into my head. There has always been so much speculation that Andrew was about to deed the farm at Swansea to Abby, which could have been what precipitated the murders.
If this was truly the case, could it have been that Andrew was leaving the farm to Abby in the event that he was the first one to pass? If he died first that leaves Abby alone in the house with Lizzie and Emma. How pleasant of a situation would that have been for any of them? Abby's life would've been pure hell if that happened. But that's just my opinion. Any thoughts on this, or why Abby may have spent time alone on the farm?
Q. When was the last time you were there, do you think?
A. To make a visit?
Q. Yes.
A. I went there the 13th of July of last year.
Q. Not this year?
A. No sir. I made a call there this year, but not a visit.
Q. How long did you stay when you were there the 13th of July?
A. I went Monday and came back Saturday.
Q. You were there nearly a week?
A. Yes sir.
Q.Was Miss Lizzie at home?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And Miss Emma?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And the old people?
A. Mrs. Borden I did not see.
Q. Where was she?
A. In Swansea I think they said.
Q.During the whole time?
A. Yes sir.
I found this passage of testimony interesting, because it seems to imply that Abby spent some time in Swansea by herself without any other members of the household. This was my interpretation at least. After reading this another idea found its way into my head. There has always been so much speculation that Andrew was about to deed the farm at Swansea to Abby, which could have been what precipitated the murders.
If this was truly the case, could it have been that Andrew was leaving the farm to Abby in the event that he was the first one to pass? If he died first that leaves Abby alone in the house with Lizzie and Emma. How pleasant of a situation would that have been for any of them? Abby's life would've been pure hell if that happened. But that's just my opinion. Any thoughts on this, or why Abby may have spent time alone on the farm?
"He who cannot put his thoughts on ice should not enter into the head of dispute." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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mbhenty
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Yes Allen: That's interesting. I thought of Abby as a home-body, probably never leaving the city. Well?
Do you think she was at the SWANSEA FARM or was she visiting relatives or friends in the town of SWANSEA?
Interesting perspective
- Harry
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I think Abbie got out a lot more than what has been recorded. Going to the farm by herself may be a little hard to accept though. They did share the farm house with the Almy's. William Almy had died in 1885 but his wife Genevra was still alive (she died in 1903) at the time Abbie was there in 1891. However, according to the Knowlton Papers, Genevra was very close to the first Mrs. Borden (Sarah) and Lizzie and Emma.
There is this from Morse's testimony at the Preliminary (p248) about the Borden's proposed visit to Swansea just before the murders:
"Q. From any talk that you had with Mr. and Mrs. Borden at that time did you understand there was any intention, or had been any intention on their part to go over to their farm in Swansea?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. What did they say about that?
A. They said they wanted to go, providing they could get Mrs. Vinnecum to go with them. She is a lady that lives over in Swansea.
Q. What did she have to do about it, do you know?
A. She was expecting her sister here from the West; and if she came they could not go.
Q. Is that what Mr. or Mrs. Borden told you?
A. Mrs. Borden told me that.
Q. They were waiting to hear from Mrs. Vinnecum to see whether her sister came from the West or not?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Was that told you before you went over to Swansea?
A. Yes Sir."
Apparently Abbie didn't like to go unless she had, at least in this case, some company.
Morse is asked this at the Inquest about his trip to Swansea on the 3rd (p99):
"Q. Stay to supper over there?
A. No Sir. I ate supper at William Vinnicum’s, a little beyond there.
Q. In Warren?
A. No, in Swansea."
Are these the same Vinnicum's that were mentioned by Abbie? Then it gets even more curious. Morse, trial, questioned about the morning of the 4th (p243+):
"Q. To whom did you write that letter you put in the post office; you are not obliged to tell that.
A. I think it was to William Vinnecum.
Q. Of Swansea?
A. Yes; it was to him, I know now; it was about some cattle.
Q. You mailed it there in the post office?
A. Yes Sir."
He had just seen him the night before. Just what was the relationship between William Vinnicum, cattle, the farm in Swansea, and the Bordens?
There is this from Morse's testimony at the Preliminary (p248) about the Borden's proposed visit to Swansea just before the murders:
"Q. From any talk that you had with Mr. and Mrs. Borden at that time did you understand there was any intention, or had been any intention on their part to go over to their farm in Swansea?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. What did they say about that?
A. They said they wanted to go, providing they could get Mrs. Vinnecum to go with them. She is a lady that lives over in Swansea.
Q. What did she have to do about it, do you know?
A. She was expecting her sister here from the West; and if she came they could not go.
Q. Is that what Mr. or Mrs. Borden told you?
A. Mrs. Borden told me that.
Q. They were waiting to hear from Mrs. Vinnecum to see whether her sister came from the West or not?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Was that told you before you went over to Swansea?
A. Yes Sir."
Apparently Abbie didn't like to go unless she had, at least in this case, some company.
Morse is asked this at the Inquest about his trip to Swansea on the 3rd (p99):
"Q. Stay to supper over there?
A. No Sir. I ate supper at William Vinnicum’s, a little beyond there.
Q. In Warren?
A. No, in Swansea."
Are these the same Vinnicum's that were mentioned by Abbie? Then it gets even more curious. Morse, trial, questioned about the morning of the 4th (p243+):
"Q. To whom did you write that letter you put in the post office; you are not obliged to tell that.
A. I think it was to William Vinnecum.
Q. Of Swansea?
A. Yes; it was to him, I know now; it was about some cattle.
Q. You mailed it there in the post office?
A. Yes Sir."
He had just seen him the night before. Just what was the relationship between William Vinnicum, cattle, the farm in Swansea, and the Bordens?
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- snokkums
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I think Andrew did that for abby because, as you said, how great would that be for her to be left in the house with too women that didn't like her. I think Andrew knew how his girls felt about Abby and he wanted to make sure she was taken care of.
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- Smudgeman
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Yes, I think Andrew was stuck between a rock and a hard place. No matter what he did for his wife, those girls were always going to feel slighted. They probably thought Andrew should give to them equally if not more than what he gave to Abby. After all, their REAL mother was dead, they were HIS daughters, and they should be provided for accordingly. Maybe there was even more resentment from the girls, because Andrew had never treated THEIR mother that well.
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Bette Davis
Bette Davis
- Kat
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Since Abbie was so close to her own family and they lived on Fourth Street, I don't know why Andrew would leave Abbie a farm in Swansey.
It would make more sense to leave her Second Street and the girls the farm. If he could do that.
Morse said that Andrew was thinking of giving the farm for charitable purposes- an old ladies home I think?
Was that a euphemism?
Anyway, the older folks did like to spend time at the farm- I think a lot of Fall Riverites got out of town in the summer when they could. Since the place was a duplex, I expect Mrs. Almy to be there at times. I also was under the impression that Abbie would stay there if she had a companion.
I haven't yet done a Vinnicum tree.
It would make more sense to leave her Second Street and the girls the farm. If he could do that.
Morse said that Andrew was thinking of giving the farm for charitable purposes- an old ladies home I think?
Was that a euphemism?
Anyway, the older folks did like to spend time at the farm- I think a lot of Fall Riverites got out of town in the summer when they could. Since the place was a duplex, I expect Mrs. Almy to be there at times. I also was under the impression that Abbie would stay there if she had a companion.
I haven't yet done a Vinnicum tree.
- shakiboo
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It's too bad he was so tight fisted with his money, he could have gotten the girls another house in Fall River, and then wouldn't have had to worry about leaving the house to Abby. He had more then enough money to keep all three women comfortable after he was gone. It's sad, if greed was the motive for their murders, he couldn't take his money with him, and at his age, had to know his departing was drawing closer (I mean of natural causes) that he didn't go ahead and get everyone set up and on their own. at least he and Abby might have enjoyed their remaining time together in peace.
- Kat
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Yes it's a good point that Andrew did not appear to have arranged anything special for the females in his household to live apart after he was gone.
Maybe he figured once he was gone, he wouldn't care?
We might have had a hint from the Whitehead side that Abbie may have planned to live with them on Fourth Street after her husband died- after all, it was 1/2 her house. Hmmm...
Maybe he figured once he was gone, he wouldn't care?
We might have had a hint from the Whitehead side that Abbie may have planned to live with them on Fourth Street after her husband died- after all, it was 1/2 her house. Hmmm...