Book from the 1960's

[cvanacore]

My name is Chrissie - I'm new to this site. My mom said in the 1960's she read an excellent book about the case -- quite popular and famous at the time -- can't remember the title or author -- when I search Amazon LOTS of stuff was written 80's and 90's -- does anyone have any idea which book she may be talking about? Thanks for the help.

[Kat]

Hi! You look like another member!

You can check the Bibliography at the website:
http://lizzieandrewborden.com/Resources ... hyCase.htm

If you find the book, let us know, OK?

[RayS]

My name is Chrissie - I'm new to this site. My mom said in the 1960's she read an excellent book about the case -- quite popular and famous at the time -- can't remember the title or author -- when I search Amazon LOTS of stuff was written 80's and 90's -- does anyone have any idea which book she may be talking about? Thanks for the help.

That just might be Edward Radin's "Lizzie, the Untold Story".
There was a republication of Edmund Pearson's "Trial of Lizzie Borden" around 1964.
Victoria Lincoln's biography of Lizzie is another. This provides a gossipy account from a novelist who lived on the same street.
These three are the one published in your time frame (1960s).

I recommend David Kent's "Forty Whacks" as an introduction to this unsolved mystery. Then see what's in your County Library system.
Good Luck and Good Reading. Take notes in a notebood for reference, about 2 whole pages per book.

[snokkums]

The books rays is talking about "Lizzie the Untold story" by Edward Radin and the "Trial of Lizzie Borden" can be found on the Barnes and Noble website. Hit the used and out of print books. And it will give you a list of the books they have. I do know they have those two books, cuz I just ordered them.

Anyway Chrissie weclome aboard!! Glad to have you here.

[mbhenty]

Yes Chrissie:

The 1960's was the decade that launched a resurgence in Lizzie Borden Studies. There were 3 monster best sellers published at that time, the best read being the book by Radin.

LIZZIE BRODEN, THE UNTOLD STORY by Edward Radin 1961

A PRIVATE DISGRACE LIZZIE BORDEN BY DAY LIGHT by Victoria Lincoln 1967

LIZZIE BORDEN A DANCE OF DEATH by Agnes deMille. 1968

If I had to guess I would say that "The Untold Story" was the most respected, "A Private Disgrace" the best seller and "A Dance Of Death" the least known, but still sort after. At least in Fall River.

These 3 titles without a doubt define the 60's in Lizzie Borden literature.

If you are going to read one and only one of these three, read Radin.

[Smudgeman]

I would suggest Radin as well, it was the first book I read, and I enjoyed it very much. I feel it presented the facts well. I think Lincoln is a bit too gossipy and sappy for me to believe.

[mbhenty]

Yes Smudgeman true. Back in the Late 70s and 80s in Fall River Bookshops A Private Disgrace was probably the most famous and sort after title. Like you said a bit gossipy, but I think that is what sold it at that time; and the fact that Victoria was from Fall River. That somewhat added a false sense of credibility to the title.

But like you, Radin was my first read. But still today a good introduction.

[augusta]

I vote 'Radin' too. Altho I don't agree with his basic theory of who the murderer was. He actually interviewed people who were like sons and daughters of witnesses (he may have interviewed a principle player or two - I don't remember). I've read him twice from the library then bought the book online. 'Tis good.

I don't recommend Lincoln's book to anyone. It's full of untruths. The stories get stuck in your brain and you get confused over what's true and what's not when you study the case. I won't read it again.

I wonder what her book would have been like if she had just written all true stuff. I guess she did not have enough stuff on her own to write about and had to pad it with her imagination. It's a shame. It's perpetuated legends about Lizzie that people believed. If it ever got re-printed it should be under "fiction".

DeMille's "Dance of Death" is real good - at least the first half. She interviewed who she could find in Fall River also who was a descendant of the people involved in the case. She tells of anecdotes they told her of Lizzie and lets you know that she isn't saying they are true or not, and it is entertaining in that way. (The one about the corpse and the underwear ... ) The second half of the book is devoted to the ballet. But it is often for sale at a decent price on eBay these days. I'd get it while I could.

Beware of Spiering's "Lizzie". Tho well-written, it seems that much was fabricated.

[mbhenty]

Yes Augusta, I don't think that Radin interviewed any players in the Lizzie Saga, but I may be wrong. I thought that he had interviewed Thomas Barlow or Everet Brown but thumbing through Radin's book I could find no proof.

His claim of fame in meeting anyone in Fall River was an old gent named James Kirby who was a kid, went to St Mary's School next door to the Bordens, and is reported as knowing Lizzie; though he does not explain how Kirby knew Lizzie.

The other well known person he interviews is James Putnum the book publisher, though he quotes Putnum he does not say that he interviewed him or spoke to him in Fall River or anywhere. Putnum's father Charles Putnum, who died in 1949, knew Lizzie. Charles Putnaum's girlfriend was friends with Lizzie and the all palled around together.

[Wordweaver]

I recommend David Kent's "Forty Whacks" as an introduction to this unsolved mystery. Then see what's in your County Library system.
Good Luck and Good Reading. Take notes in a notebood for reference, about 2 whole pages per book.

Good idea to start taking notes early. I agree that "Forty Whacks" is a wonderful book, but it's not always readily available. Sullivan's Goodbye, Lizzie Borden is quite good, too.

Welcome to the forum!

Lynn

[Bob Gutowski]

The de Mille has the clearest (ugh!) photos of the crime scene. She had access to the contents of the hip-bath full of trial evidence, with the originals of the pix (now residing at The Fall River Historical Society). If this doesn't make sense to you at the moment, don't worry - it will after a little reading!

[fliesnskies]

I've recently purchased "A Private Disgrace" and I'm suspect that is could possibly be a 1st editon. Can anyone direct me on how I could go about figuring this out?

Thanks in advance.

[Wordweaver]

I've recently purchased "A Private Disgrace" and I'm suspect that is could possibly be a 1st editon. Can anyone direct me on how I could go about figuring this out?

Thanks in advance.

Look on the copyright page. It will be just after the title page, on the left-hand side. Sometimes they actually say "first edition," but generally you have to look at the copyright information and dates.

If it says "Book club edition," it's not a first edition.

Also, check the printing information. It may say, "Third printing" or "First impression."

Or there may be a line of numbers that goes:

10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1

If it goes all the way to 1, it's a first impression of that edition.

If you can scan or take a picture of the copyright page and upload it here, I could tell you.

Lynn

[Kat]

Thanks Lynn! I didn't know why my books said 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1.

[snokkums]

The Lizzie Borden sourcebook is good too. Shows all the newsclippings of the day.

[fliesnskies]

Look on the copyright page. It will be just after the title page, on the left-hand side. Sometimes they actually say "first edition," but generally you have to look at the copyright information and dates.

If it says "Book club edition," it's not a first edition.

Also, check the printing information. It may say, "Third printing" or "First impression."

Or there may be a line of numbers that goes:

10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1

If it goes all the way to 1, it's a first impression of that edition.

If you can scan or take a picture of the copyright page and upload it here, I could tell you

I've checked the copyright page and there's no listings that you mentioned. It does have a 'library of congress' number. I will scan the page and post here for you to check out. Thanks for your help and great information.

[RayS]

The convention of printing numbers to show the edition number makes it easy to upgrade by just eliminating the lowest number.
This idea was from the 1970s (to my knowledge), not earlier.

[mbhenty]

Yes, good job LYNN; see you are very knowledgable about book printings, Coul !

Yes, FLIESNSKIES: There are many editions of Victoria's book. Along with that comes confusion about which is the first edition and Putman was not very clear at the time.

The First Edition of A PRIVATE DISGRACE was in dark blue cloth with darker blue DJ. published by G.P. Putnam's and Sons 1967. Inside the dust jacket it will state $6.95. There is no mention anywhere in the book that it is a first edition-------- on the copyright page or the title page.

Measure the book. The first edition is just a hair short of 8 and 3/4s tall. (really 8 and 5/8s inches tall) and just shy of 6 inches wide. All other editions are different sizes.

You will find that if it is a book club edition it will be a different size, that is, a half inch shorter, 8 and 1/4. But there was also an edition that was a little taller than the 1st. This may be the second impression since it it the same size and probably came out the same time as the British Gollancz edition, London.

(As I mention above, the first edition does not state anywhere that it is a first edition. The second Impression should. Also, though I have never handled one, the second impression I believe is a different size.)

Hope this was of some help.

[Kat]

Thanks Michael!
I was wondering if it's such a good idea to scan a page.
Might that be possibly destructive of the spine?
Measuring it sounds like a good idea!

[fliesnskies]

Very helpful! I measured the book and it measures just as you stated (1st edition size). Thanks so very much for the terrific info on this matter.

Kat, I think you're right about the scan; hurting the spine. Good point that I had overlooked; smart cookie you are!

Thanks all!!

[william]

Hello Michael,

I have a first edition of the Lincoln book. The cloth cover has an embossed image of an axe or hatchet.

Do all editions of the book have this image?

[fliesnskies]

Hello William,
My copy had the hatched on it also.

[mbhenty]

Yes, Right you are William. Did not go that deep into my description but yes, there is an embossed/stamped ax into the front cloth cover. The same "laced fan ax" that is displayed on the Dust Jacket. Not sure what other editions have. I have picked some up in the past but have long given them away keeping only the firsts.

To keep this first edition thing in perspective, when it comes to Lincoln's book the value in the book is determine by condition just as much as edition. That is to say, a 2nd impression in Fine condtion may be more valuable than a 1st in shaby condition. This is not true about very valued titles such as, lets say, Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 where a shaby 1st edition is worth tons more than a 3rd or 4th edition copy in any condition.

So, though a First edition of Victoria Lincoln's, A Private Disgrace is the most desirable edition, it is not a terribly expensive book. But of course William, I am sure that you already knew all this.