Playing Lizzie

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:16 am

Since 1992, many gals have tried their hand at doing justice to the part in the city of Fall River, and of course in plays and ballets and films elsewhere even before. The best Lizzie I can recall was Sharon Varney, who presented herself at the Fall River Historical Society one day in 1991 and gave her card with Lizbeth A. Borden- Maplecroft on it. The staff was so impressed they gave Sharon a one-woman show at the old firebarn. I am hoping someone here might have a photo of her. She was flawless and her costumes were a tour de force. Sharon vanished after the centennial but nobody can forget her- she never broke her "Lizzie" character and was the hit of the Victorian Cafe in the old Central church.
Here is a Lizzie from a Bristol Community College production in 1995-I think it was the David Kent play

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:18 am

Barb Macdonald, one of the original Second Street Irregulars (on the left) as Lizzie with Lillie Fessenden as Alice Russell, 1994. Barb was so devoted to the case that she became a lawyer while also teaching elementary school with the thought of someday getting into Jennings' papers if she could just get a job at the firm!

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:21 am

Lizzie on horseback- I hope she doesn't shoot it if it thows her. Barb is an accomplished equestrienne.

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:24 am

My last year as Lizzie after a good run 1998-2003/. Pulling off 32 at age 52 was just getting plain ridiculous

This was the last year with Martha McGinn as owner- and this was a scalding hot August 4th. Playing Abby is a lot easier- after a few lines, one gets to lie down on the floor upstairs.

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:28 am

Deborah Alie, Dee Moniz and Lee Ann have also taken a turn at channeling Lizzie and I hope someone out there has some photos of them.

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:41 am

This is the only one I can find of Deborah Alie, a very accomplished local actress who played Lizzie for the house from 1996-1998-shown here in the diningroom on Second St with Billy Pavao.

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:12 pm

Shelley @ Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:21 am wrote:Lizzie on horseback- I hope she doesn't shoot it if it thows her. Barb is an accomplished equestrienne.

Wouldn't Lizzie have ridden side-saddle in those times?

If she shot a horse, wouldn't she have to pay damages to the owner?

Is there any "documentary proof" that she owned a riding horse?

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:24 pm

Hi Ray- good to see you. Yes, Lizzie would have ridden side saddle. Barbara IS riding sidesaddle. There is a large saddle horn over the horse's withers which one wraps the right leg around, then there is a short stirrup. Side saddle riding may still be seen in the show ring. This was meant as a joke- we discussed anecdotes about Lizzie on another thread, including the one where Lizzie shot the horse which threw her. The only proof of horses connected with the Bordens I have ever seen was mention of her owning a carriage and team at Maplecroft, and Mr. Borden selling his one horse to avoid a city tax. They may have had ponies or horses at the farm. Since it was a working farm and horses or mules pulled the plow, I would be fairly sure Andrew had a team at one of the farms. Uncle John sure could have gotten him a good deal on horseflesh.

Pulling horses are not necessarily riding horses, but they may be. My gelding in the photo above did not pull, but was a great old guy for dressage and hunter-jumping as well as western trailriding. Jack has gone to the great pasture in the sky, 4 years ago yesterday-which made me think of the photo. He literally died in my arms, and was greatly loved. I have had no horse since.

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:02 pm

I thought Liz Montgomery was superb in the role- her eyes conveyed so much. Feminine- but ruthless! These are publicity stills from 1975- wow, there's that globe lamp Harry- again!

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:06 pm

Yes, Shelley, that's the source photo of the lamp.

I simply "amputated" Elizabeth's head and substituted Lizbeth's. Painless to them both, I assure you.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:18 pm

There is a photo in the Fall River Herald News of Aug. 4, 1992, of Deborah Ali, but it's not a good view so I didn't scan and post it. She's also not dressed as Lizzie- she has a T-shirt on.

Of course you are dressed well in some news items of similiar dates.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:23 pm

New Bedford Trial Lizzie

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:26 pm

Thanks! It helps to sew. Barb MacDonald has a great Greek lady in New Bedford who made her Lizzieduds. Vogue has beautiful retro- patterns, especially for the leg o' mutton blouse and 7 gored walking skirt. I got my Abby dress this year from Blanche's place- well made and very reasonable. A cotton morning calico!

http://www.blanchesplace.com/id30.html
I am having a copper taffeta two piece suit made for Christmas to wear to the FRHS's fabulous tea house. Some of Barbara's pretty dresses are over on the Dressing the Part thread. We can always use extras at the house for August 4th - in costume as all the characters.

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:44 pm

Shelley @ Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:02 pm wrote:I thought Liz Montgomery was superb in the role- her eyes conveyed so much. Feminine- but ruthless! These are publicity stills from 1975- wow, there's that globe lamp Harry- again!

Speaking of a red-headed murderess, have any of you watched the B&W 1941 film "The Maltese Falcon" recently? There is much more detail in the novel, which is better than the book but takes longer to read.

PS Would a proper young lady like Lizzie go without her gloves in that daylight shot?

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:47 pm

Shelley @ Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:24 pm wrote:Hi Ray- good to see you. Yes, Lizzie would have ridden side saddle. Barbara IS riding sidesaddle. There is a large saddle horn over the horse's withers which one wraps the right leg around, then there is a short stirrup. Side saddle riding may still be seen in the show ring. This was meant as a joke- we discussed anecdotes about Lizzie on another thread, including the one where Lizzie shot the horse which threw her. The only proof of horses connected with the Bordens I have ever seen was mention of her owning a carriage and team at Maplecroft, and Mr. Borden selling his one horse to avoid a city tax. They may have had ponies or horses at the farm. Since it was a working farm and horses or mules pulled the plow, I would be fairly sure Andrew had a team at one of the farms. Uncle John sure could have gotten him a good deal on horseflesh.

Pulling horses are not necessarily riding horses, but they may be. My gelding in the photo above did not pull, but was a great old guy for dressage and hunter-jumping as well as western trailriding. Jack has gone to the great pasture in the sky, 4 years ago yesterday-which made me think of the photo. He literally died in my arms, and was greatly loved. I have had no horse since.

I have no experience with "dressage" (sounds like some kind of kinky perversion to me) or riding horses. But the pictures that I've seen show both legs on one side of the horse.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Example: Lizzie was doing dressage with a horse!
That's against the law in my state. And the SPCA would probably object.
No, I'm not in a serious mood this rainy afternoon.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:27 pm

Lizzie wasn't red-haired and it looks like she has one glove on there. Have you seen the movie?

Smudgeman · Post by **Smudgeman** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:33 pm

Shelley @ Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:02 pm wrote:I thought Liz Montgomery was superb in the role- her eyes conveyed so much. Feminine- but ruthless! These are publicity stills from 1975- wow, there's that globe lamp Harry- again!

I have to agree. Elizabeth Montgomery will be forever burned in my memory as Lizzie. She played the part better than anyone else could ever do in my opinion. Any other actress trying to do a remake of the movie would not hold a candle to Elizabeth.

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:37 pm

Kat @ Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:27 pm wrote:Lizzie wasn't red-haired and it looks like she has one glove on there. Have you seen the movie?

Yes, I saw the original movie circa 1975 on TV, but remember little.
Lizzie is described as having reddish-brown hair. Or is my memory going?
Elizabeth Montgomery was a "blonde" but don't know if she had dark roots. I have the idea that she did. "Her cuffs and collars didn't match" as James Bond said in "Diamonds are Forever".

From other reading, I understand that red hair was what the devil had, and this was a sign (in literature of that time) that the person was NO GOOD.
Those more familiar with the Sherlock Holmes stories, or Dashiell Hammett can speak out. (I believe this is part of popular culture of the times.)

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:40 pm

Smudgeman @ Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:33 pm wrote:
Shelley @ Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:02 pm wrote:I thought Liz Montgomery was superb in the role- her eyes conveyed so much. Feminine- but ruthless! These are publicity stills from 1975- wow, there's that globe lamp Harry- again!
...
I have to agree. Elizabeth Montgomery will be forever burned in my memory as Lizzie. She played the part better than anyone else could ever do in my opinion. Any other actress trying to do a remake of the movie would not hold a candle to Elizabeth.

Actually, that film dropped Uncle John and other high-cost persons and places. Films are profit-making entertainment, not historical works.
Worst of all, it shows Lizzie doing the murders after she "denuded" herself.
That was not proper for a New England maiden, then or now. Or so they say.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:41 pm

Lizzie's arrest page gives a valid, non-subjective description of her:
She was 5'4", gray eyes and light hair.

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:44 pm

Kat @ Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:41 pm wrote:Lizzie's arrest page gives a valid, non-subjective description of her:
She was 5'4", gray eyes and light hair.

What does "light hair" really mean, then and now?
[My fingers are getting tired.]

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:46 pm

Great costume photos, Shelley! A BIG thanks.

Looks like you and the ladies are having a lot of fun. That's the way it should be.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:51 pm

We did a whole thread on *light* as a color- and hair color as well. We brought up similar examples from the time period etc. That was a while ago.
It basically means light brown.
I think you should take notes, because you were around when we looked all that up.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:52 pm

I love that movie too- even if it is flawed.
Elizabeth Montgomery is missed.

Wordweaver · Post by **Wordweaver** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:03 pm

RayS @ Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:47 pm wrote: [I have no experience with "dressage" (sounds like some kind of kinky perversion to me) or riding horses. But the pictures that I've seen show both legs on one side of the horse.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.

A proper Victorian lady's limbs were completely covered by her riding dress. Florence King has described the position of a woman riding sidesaddle as "twisted like a corkscrew and leaning to starboard," which pretty well sums it up.

And of course dressage is kinky. Whips and leather galore!

Lynn
who is also feeling frisky today

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:41 pm

Red hair has always been rather unpopular. Lucy Maude Montgomery gives Anne of Green Gables the hated red hair. When Prince Harry was born, Prince Charles said to Diana- "Oh no- a rusty-headed one!". It has, in my experience been associated with temperamental, hot-headed women, -bossy and aggressive. The Lizzie Bobblehead https://www.lizzie-borden.com/Pages/Pro ... egory_id=6& has red hair. I have seen the old newspapers saying brown- and one says black, but Lizzie had on a hat so it may have been hard to tell. Emma's was described as "darker". I would opt for medium brown, based on just the black and white photos. Emma and Abby's hair both look darker than Lizzie's and Lizzie's hair looks about the same color of her real mother's as far as one can judge.

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:16 am

And of course three of the fine actresses who portrayed Lizzie in the recent musical. The soundtrack is a must =have and I believe it is Alison Fraser on that. She opened with the American Theatre Company in NYC with the musical and her rendition of "A House on the Hill" will make you weep.

Jayne Paterson toured in Massachusetts in 2002

And it was my great pleasure to meet Christiane Noll at the Norma Terris theatre in Chester. She was magnificent in the role, and a beautiful gal inside and out. She was so pretty and sympathetic as Lizzie, half the men in the audience would have taken a hatchet to her family just to please her
-and they all played Lizzie as a redhead!

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:13 am

The red-hair society claimed her as their own as well.
They went off the net tho- I don't know if they're still around.

I'm pretty sure if it was even reddish the arrest record would have printed that.

We have Bobble-heads!
http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Borde ... nocker.htm

Lizzie Borden HeadKnocker

NECA brings you the classic Living Dead Doll as a head knocker. 8 inches tall, Lizzie is hand painted and made of heavy ceramic-type resin. Comes in display window box. This is a great Bobble Head doll and a wonderful Lizzie collectable.

The price includes priority shipping via USPS. $21.95
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I believe the B&B charges $10 shipping first order.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:45 am

Other Lizzies
Pro-Jo 11-15-2001
Lifebeat

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:49 am

Here's your Lizzie, Shell- in character

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 4:42 am

I like those photos. It's kind of cool how someone get that dressed up and look like our lizzie!

Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Playing Lizzie

Playing Lizzie

Collecting Lizzies