November 2006 Hatchet is now ONLINE!

Stefani · Post by **Stefani** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:18 pm

The fourth issue of year three of The Hatchet: Journal of Lizzie Borden Studies, is now online for your reading pleasure.

We have some excellent pieces in this issue: a truly delightful work of fiction by Richard Behrens, another great journey by Neilson Caplain, a telling work of research on Emma's Newmarket light panel by Kat Koorey, an excerpt from a yet unpublished Lizzie Borden book by TK Rouse, an essay about another famous hatchet wielding woman by Richard Behrens, and two pieces of original poetry--one by William Schley-Ulrich and the other by Michael Brimbau.

Plus, our 2nd Street regulars make appearances: Eugene Hosey, Douglas Walters, Denise Noe and Sherry Chapman.

I am sure all our authors and artists would appreciate any feedback you can offer them for their work.

Subscribers can access the online version and order the print edition (with a choice of B&W or color!) here:
http://www.hatchetonline.com/HatchetOnline/index.htm

Non subscribers can join for a mere $20 per year for all four issues at the same address above.

If you are a non-subscriber, and would like to buy either a hard copy (NOW IN FULL COLOR) or buy a download of the current issue, please visit my store at LuLu.com at this address:

http://www.lulu.com/PearTreePress

Enjoy!

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:06 pm

I have placed my order !

Tracy...

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:53 pm

One aspect of the Hatchet that I strongly admire is the graphic design and layout. I think Stefani deserves a lot of praise for her ability to craft the look and feel of the pages and the journal as a whole (I don't know if she does it alone or has help, but everyone involved deserves praise). The covers are beautiful and the presentation of the articles are very elegant. And she finds some very interesting vintage illustrations to round everything off.

I also want to thank Stef and Kat for making my first experience of writing for the Hatchet a wonderful one. They really worked on my submissions and did an excellent job as editors.

Kat, I didn't know Frank Spiering wrote Prince Jack. I have applauded From Hell for using his theory about Jack The Ripper, and now I feel weird about it. I hate Frank Spiering. His book misled me for years.

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:02 am

You wrote the piece on Carrie Nation, Richard? I just finished reading that a minute ago. Fine work, that! I enjoyed it

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:10 am

Thanks! Stefani suggested Carrie Nation and when I looked into her, I thought she was a hoot. There's not too much about her out there, but her autobiography, The Use and Need of a Life, is in the public domain and is published on-line

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:52 pm

Thanks Richard- you're a Prince!

Stefani does every bit of design and layout. Sometimes the contributor includes a few illustrations.
BTW the Reed illustration was fantastic!

The more info I gathered on Spiering the more I disliked his methods. I did suspend judgment until I found the negative pile was so big. Plus personal experience with the man was relayed to me.

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:35 pm

Another gorgeous cover! I ordered my color hard copy from Lulu.com immediately. It is really nice to have that option.

Yes, Frank Spiering ticks me off, too. Some issues back, I wrote the Hatchet article, "The True and Amazing Story of Lizzie's Gay Note". He outright misled readers about it. I was angry that he would do that - that led a lot of people to think Lizzie was definitely gay. It was unfair to all who read it, and to Lizzie's memory. Maybe she was gay; maybe she wasn't. But he lied to reach his conclusion. I was very interested to read Kat's big article on Emma a few issues ago, and I look forward to her new one in the current issue.

I know nothing about Carrie Nation, so your piece will be a total learning experience for me, Richard. Good choice of subject matter.

Thanks, Stef, Kat & Harry for the fantastic job you all do in making 'The Hatchet'. It's a first class publication.

Haulover · Post by **Haulover** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:01 am

i haven't read yet, looked at it just today.

i look forward to the fiction by Richard Behrens -- this is the first in the hatchet? i'm always happy to see new fiction.

tina's excerpt --- i read it some time ago, i remember enjoying it -- i'll read it again. this is bridget's POV murder morning, as i recall.

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:18 pm

If anyone out there can find any overt historical or cultural mistakes in the Purloined Curio, please let me know immediately. Stefani and Kat both worked hard on the story and made numerous suggestions to correct street names, some period nuances and a few biographical corrections. Not to mention a load of grammar, punctuation and syntax. They did a terrific job.

Of course it goes without saying that the entire story is completely absurd, a pure comedic fantasy, and can't possibly have the same degree of accuracy as an historical novel or a biography. I hope everyone reads it with a sense of humor and enjoys it as light entertainment.

My apologies to the Livermore family. Any resemblance is purely coincidental.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:27 pm

augusta @ Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:35 pm wrote:Thanks, Stef, Kat & Harry for the fantastic job you all do in making 'The Hatchet'. It's a first class publication.

Thank you for including me but my involvement is minimal. Stefani and Kat do yeoman work beyond belief is producing each issue. All the credit is theirs and of course the writers.

Occasionally they honor me by asking me to find some fact reference or provide a photo.

Stefani and Kat - Bravo!

bobarth · Post by **bobarth** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:05 pm

Richard-
So you are responsible for that wickedly clever piece of fiction....Nice job!!!!!!!Loved it

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:04 pm

Mea culpa. Thanks. I enjoyed writing the Purloined Curio over any fiction I've done so far.

As Lizzie fiction, I loved Bridget's Bad Day very much. I find it more difficult to do realistic historical fiction about Lizzie and I applaud T.K. Rouse for handling it with such style. It is beautiful writing.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:49 pm

I think TK's contribution is the most accurate re-telling of the events of that day, by Bridget, as any I have ever read. I wish it was the first page of every other "Lizzie website" out there.

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:10 am

As always, the newest Hatchet is a veritable feast for the mind! As per usual, I devoured it in one sitting and keep wishing for more. Great work by all!

diana · Post by **diana** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:26 pm

What a lovely mix of fact and fiction in this issue!

Tina-Kate's treatment of Bridget's morning is indeed a gem. All the fiction merits praise, really -- the evocative poems, the Purloined Curio with its profusion of Bordens and Douglas Walters' Pepys-style diarizing -- all enjoyable.

The article on Carrie Nation was fascinating. We all know who she was but these details flesh out her role in history so well.

It was nice to take another walk back in time with the expert Mr. Caplain and who else but Denise Noe would have thought of coupling Dorian Gray and Lizzie in such a unique and interesting way? I loved the illuminating article on Spiering (no pun intended) along with photos to prove the points.

I always look forward to Eugene and Sherry's gifts -- as usual, they did not disappoint -- and Michael Brimbau's photos of the historical society were definitely cover-worthy.

Stef -- the visuals just get more stunning with each issue and they complement every contribution perfectly!

Good job everyone!

stuartwsa · Post by **stuartwsa** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:12 pm

I especially enjoyed Kat's subtle skewering of Spiering. Way to go, Kat! Right out of the ballpark, as usual!

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:53 am

OMG I even held back! (Thank you Stuart).

How did ya'll like the Newmarket "light panel?"

stuartwsa · Post by **stuartwsa** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:03 am

I found it fascinating.

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:43 am

I always found Spiering's book to be irresponsible sensationalistic sleaze. Kat's approach is much more precise, intelligent and responsible.

I don't like books that come out boasting to have found The Final Solution. An example is the Cornwall Book on Jack the Ripper which I stopped reading 2/3 of the way through when I realized she was doing with the Ripper what Spiering does with Lizzie.

Bob Gutowski · Post by **Bob Gutowski** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:36 am

I got home after a grueling two and a half hour writing session (after a full day of work) and opened up my full-color HATCHET to find...ME! It was so nice to have my "Do You Dream in Borden" thread excerpted in the current issue.

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:05 pm

Richard @ Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:43 pm wrote:I always found Spiering's book to be irresponsible sensationalistic sleaze. Kat's approach is much more precise, intelligent and responsible.

I don't like books that come out boasting to have found The Final Solution. An example is the Cornwall Book on Jack the Ripper which I stopped reading 2/3 of the way through when I realized she was doing with the Ripper what Spiering does with Lizzie.

Frank Spiering is a professional writer, he writes to sell books. His thin base is the story from Louis Howe that "Emma dunnit".
Aside from that, the book does have more new pictures from that day, and more background facts on the case. It is valuable for that, not for its proposed solution. Spiering reports as fact the typewritten confession that he admits was a hoax in the notes.

Professional writers have a nose for what sells.

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:06 pm

Deleted - duplicate from computer burp.

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:56 pm

Ray, who is Louis Howe? Do you mean F.D.R's advisor?

bobarth · Post by **bobarth** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:10 pm

Just reading an article on Cousin Grace Hartley Howe. Louis Howe was married to her. She was mentioned twice in Lizzies will. I believe she was a cousin on Lizzies' mother's side. No idea about his connection with Spiering though.

Bob Gutowski · Post by **Bob Gutowski** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:53 am

I am loving the "Lizzie Borden, Girl Detective" yarn!

Spiering is a "professional writer." You GOT that, all of you NON-professional writers? Capisce?

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:17 pm

Richard @ Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:56 pm wrote:Ray, who is Louis Howe? Do you mean F.D.R's advisor?

I hope I spelled it right. Yes, the same, whose wife inherited from her cousin Lizzie Borden.
I interpret that statement "Emma done it" as symbolic; it means an unsuspected child of Andy did it.
My "Proof of Brown's Theory - part 2" explains why it was a relative. That would explain Lizzie's silence and the collusion in the cover-up. Others may have had a similar unacknowledged relative. Or just the pay-off.

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:19 pm

bobarth @ Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:10 pm wrote:Just reading an article on Cousin Grace Hartley Howe. Louis Howe was married to her. She was mentioned twice in Lizzies will. I believe she was a cousin on Lizzies' mother's side. No idea about his connection with Spiering though.

Frank Spiering's book "Lizzie" mentions a quote attributed to Louis Howe saying the murderer was Emma. No Way, No Howe.
The police checked her alibi, as they did Uncle John. Would anyone believe that the people where Emma was would deliberately lie? I don't.

bobarth · Post by **bobarth** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:25 pm

[quote="RayS @ Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:19 am"] No Way, No Howe.
quote]

Good one Ray.

Wonder what made him say it was Emma?

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:40 pm

Thanks Bob. I enjoyed writing the story knowing you guys are going to find it amusing.

If anyone sees any gross inaccuracies (besides the basic premise of the story of course!!) please let me know.

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:45 pm

What I found most distressing about the Spiering book was how he presented speculation as fact. In the opening of his book, he announces that all dialogue and conversation is based upon testimony and living witnesses, but he presents dialogue and actions that couldn’t come from any testimony without footnotes or citing a source. I remember he describes Lizzie seeing Emma with the hatchet and Emma raises her finger to her lips in a sign of silence. Now how could he possibly know this?

So Franklin Roosevelt’s friend and advisor was married to Lizzie Borden’s cousin. That’s a strange factoid! Thanks Ray.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:52 pm

Spiering died in 1997 of a heart attack.

I doubt you have any historical innacurracies Richard.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 6:02 pm

Cook Borden was brother to Abraham Borden (Andrew's father).
Cook Borden's daughter Mary married Dr. James Hartley.
Their daughter Grace Hartley married Louis Howe.

Mary Hartley would be 1st cousin to Andrew.
Grace would be second cousin to Andrew, and I believe 2nd cousin once removed to Lizzie(?)- (the *once removed* part always gets me- I think it is one generation).

Isn't there something about a will in that line that said no BORDEN could inherit from them?

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:15 pm

bobarth @ Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:25 pm wrote:
RayS @ Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:19 am wrote: No Way, No Howe.
Good one Ray.
Wonder what made him say it was Emma?

I wasn't there. I trust Louis Howe didn't know The Secret that was kept from the public (as in Agnes DeMille's book from those sisters living in a square granite house).
It could be just one way to shut off further questioning on a subject he wouldn't admit he didn't know.
"Why is the sky blue?" "Because its a heavenly color."

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:20 pm

Richard @ Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:45 pm wrote:What I found most distressing about the Spiering book was how he presented speculation as fact. In the opening of his book, he announces that all dialogue and conversation is based upon testimony and living witnesses, but he presents dialogue and actions that couldn’t come from any testimony without footnotes or citing a source. I remember he describes Lizzie seeing Emma with the hatchet and Emma raises her finger to her lips in a sign of silence. Now how could he possibly know this?

So Franklin Roosevelt’s friend and advisor was married to Lizzie Borden’s cousin. That’s a strange factoid! Thanks Ray.

1) Actually, Lizzie Borden happened to be a cousing to Louis Howe's wife. You can't pick your relatives, can you?
2) Frank Spiering was a professional writer, like Edmond Pearson, Edward Radin, Victoria Lincoln, etc. They knew how to write a book that would sell and bring in the big buck.
Arnold Brown was not a professional writer. He spent "two years" in research on the memoirs of Henry Hawthorne. He had no monetary "axe to grind", it was a personal task. I think he was on to the solution, for rational reasons.

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:27 pm

Richard @ Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:45 pm wrote:What I found most distressing about the Spiering book was how he presented speculation as fact. In the opening of his book, he announces that all dialogue and conversation is based upon testimony and living witnesses, but he presents dialogue and actions that couldn’t come from any testimony without footnotes or citing a source. I remember he describes Lizzie seeing Emma with the hatchet and Emma raises her finger to her lips in a sign of silence. Now how could he possibly know this?
...

Spiering knew how to write a sensational book that would sell and make big bucks. That's what professional writers do.
While rejecting his unrealistic solution, I do believe he has put in enough background material to make the book worth reading. Just use your judgement about scenes like that.
You can look up the word "surmise" for recreating a theory. That line makes Lizzie innocent of any prior knowledge, but guilty of withholding evidence about the murder. Many people believed that, then and now.
The question was why. I believe that kind-heartened Lizzie wouldn't betray a (crazy) relative. We know she didn't hand over Maggie as a patsy!
Hint: my "Brown's Theory - Part 4" will discuss a probable motive that can justify keeping a secret, to avoid family shame.

Haulover · Post by **Haulover** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:04 pm

ray, do you subscribe to The Hatchet? If not, why don't you? it's not expensive. i would think you would find it interesting.

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:41 pm

I have been reading 'The Hatchet' with some regularity this issue. I'm up to somewhere in "Bridget's Bad Day", which looks really good.

I like Lizzie fiction. There are so few things that we actually know about her and her fam, and the crimes, that reading fiction not only entertains but helps us to think - to think beyond "I was so christened," and "Lizzie Borden Again".

Richard, I love the idea of Lizzie as a 'girl detective'. I hope you do a series of these. I wish I had read your post about helping you find any errors before I read your story.

I enjoyed your story and read it all in one sitting. Tom Crank's saying, "..I always did want to play a musical instrument," is priceless.

I was surprised that Lizzie was only like 15. Would people have listened to her opinion so at her age? Plus she dropped out of school - was it at age 14? I think she was described as being pretty withdrawn at that age. I think I would have made her withdrawn to adults, but outgoing to her peers. Just my own thought. Would Andrew have listened to her for financial advice then? I think I would have turned that around, having Lizzie learn from him.

The dialogue was charming, especially coming from Andrew (I think that's probably how he really talked) and the older people. I think I would have had the younger characters speak more relaxed - especially Lizzie. Lizzie's different; Lizzie's daring. I think she would pepper her speech with slang of the day, and swear words to people she didn't want to impress.

Just throwing out some ideas. It was a delightful story.

The cover I think is tied for my favorite with the one Mark Amarantes did for a winter issue. Really neat how the back cover was done. Gorgeous, mb!

I totally loved Kat's article on the light panel in New Market. Sure, Spiering could have written what he wanted and we as readers could take some things as we wanted to. But then he should have called it "fiction".

Spiering was a liar. Plain and simple. I enjoyed his writing style, but to purposely mislead people on what were supposed to be historical facts is really nasty. Okay, he wanted to sell his book. Who wouldn't? (I think even Arnold Brown would not have turned down a check from his publisher, RayS.) I think Arnold Brown did believe in his story - I don't think he purposely tried to put one over on anybody.

Boy, thinking back on Spiering's story of Emma and her paranoia and the light fixture ... When I first read his book I thought it was true (I was young) and I thought, 'Boy, what a researcher he is!' I even wrote him a fan letter.

Kat's article, like her previous piece on Emma, should eventually be a well-read classic.

I didn't know Grace Howe was like a 3rd cousin removed or something from Lizzie, since in her will I think it refers to her as 'cousin'. I guess that was just shortening it up. I think everyone just writes 'cousin' when they write of her, it seems.

I hadn't heard that nobody named Borden was to get anything from Lizzie's will. (Can you post the line from the will, Kat?)

I read that Louis Howe said he thought it was Emma, too. But I can't remember where. (And no, I don't mean the posts here ...)

If you watch the movie "Sunrise at Campobello", it's about FDR and his contracting polio and Louis Howe has a co-starring role in it (Howe is played by Hume Cronyn; FDR by Jason Robards). I kept watching, hoping to see 'Grace Howe', but no such luck. Howe was extremely close to Roosevelt. He was given his own sleeping quarters in the White House. FDR used to go to Marion to see a Dr. McDonald, who used the therapy of swimming for his polio. Marion is just loaded with history.

I don't think Lizzie ever met FDR ...

Mr. Caplain's article was great. The illustrations are fantastic throughout.

Now, to finish T.K.'s Bridget story ...

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:19 pm

Augusta, thanks so much for the valuable feedback on Purloined Curio (and your comments on the other works in the issue as well). I did take many liberties with both Lizzie, her family, and Fall River in general, all in the name of fun. I wrote the story for amusement and I hope you found it entertaining and above all funny.

As for the historical accuracy, a lot of changes were made by Stefani and Kat who painstakingly went through the manuscript. They didn't just edit the manuscruipt, but completed it. However I'm sure despite all the vetting, there's still a lot of room for improvement.

I had a great time writing it and I'm halfway through another, longer, adventure, The Case of the Melancholy Scion. I'm taking some of your comments to heart and its already helped me reshape some of the characterizations.

I did have a challenge making Lizzie only 15. The dialogue between Sarah and Lizzie does sound like grown mature women. I went on the assumption that upper middle class teenagers in 1875 were more educated and more literate than those today.

Andrew's speech was perhaps not 100 per cent accurate, but I was thinking of the Quaker Men of Nantucket or New Bedford that you can read about in places like Moby Dick. Andrew wasn't a sea faring man, but they were close to New Bedford. I had to adjust the language to make it sound closer to 1850 than 1900. Livermore, I just got the diction from The Gilded Age by Mark Twain and some characters from Charles Dickens.

I actually was able to verify that "Fiddlesticks" was already in use by 1875 as was the term "Fibbertigibbet" although I couldn't find an excuse to use it in the Purloined Curio.

I remember writing the interchange between Lizzie and her Father that puts Andrew into Livermore's study offering him money. I was a little concerned with how to bridge the gap between Lizzie wanting to find out more about Livemore and Andrew investing in the mill. When I handed over the story, I felt the dialogue wasn't convincing enough and I think I need to rewrite it so Andrew was already targeting Livermore's mill upon reading of the General Manager's death. Perhaps Lizzie just nudges her father, rather than convinces him from scratch.

I agree that perhaps it would be more suited that Lizzie is more guarded with older people and more informal and slangy with her peers. I personally like the image of Lizzie and Sarah seated on stools in the pharmacy drinking their medicinal syrup water like they were Laverne and Shirley at Arnold's Drive In!

In a story I'm writing called The Singular Affair of the Hottentot Venus, Lizzie Borden at age 17 does indeed take on a daring move and she sheds her bustle and hoop skirt for the new Curaiss Bodice that is ever the rage amongst the Bohemian Women of Greenwich Village. It does cause a scandal and doesn't make Andrew Borden happy in the slightest.

Again, thanks for the feedback and the compliments.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:54 pm

I thought of your Lizzie as being one way with adults and another with her peers. I got that right off. I think she was that way- so I didn't worry about her seeming withdrawn at 15 and then blossoming later, as we hear from real life. The timing of this being right after leaving school is right, I thought. I also think she would be one way at home and acting another in public- so there's plenty of room to make her into anything.
We still make her into anything, because she is such a blank slate.
I also liked that she held the Boy Inventor off at arm's length, because that leaves room for the possiblitly that she won't be dating boys. It also makes her seem more equal, fair and modern.
I must say I read the whole story from beginning to end 5 times and it never was tedious and I liked it almost more each reading. I think you hit it exactly.

(I also liked that Andrew was humble in the presence of Livermore- that he might be tongue-tied while Lizzie was not. It was an interesting switch on what we think of as his personality, which you can do in fiction.)

DWilly · Post by **DWilly** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:09 pm

Kat @ Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:54 pm wrote:- so there's plenty of room to make her into anything.
We still make her into anything, because she is such a blank slate.

Oh, good, then we can make her gay if we want to

Since Michelle Rodriquez, formally with the show Lost, has been outed I think I'll go with her and Lizzie doing a little crime solving

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:27 pm

In Stefani's lectures on Lizzie, she makes the point that we do project ourselves onto Lizzie, or imbue her with traits we would like to, because we don't know enough about her real life- her personal thoughts. Mainly because she only *spoke* at the inquest, and never explained.

Did you read the story?

Richard has her as an equal with the Boy Inventor, and he has a crush on her, but she keeps him at bay and retains her independence. It is up to him if she will be gay or not.

DWilly · Post by **DWilly** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:43 pm

Kat @ Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:27 pm wrote:In Stefani's lectures on Lizzie, she makes the point that we do project ourselves onto Lizzie, or imbue her with traits we would like to, because we don't know enough about her real life- her personal thoughts. Mainly because she only *spoke* at the inquest, and never explained.

Did you read the story?

Richard has her as an equal with the Boy Inventor, and he has a crush on her, but she keeps him at bay and retains her independence. It is up to him if she will be gay or not.

Of course Richard can make Lizzie anyway he wants to. And so can the rest of us

After all if he can write a story so can we. Let's see... I think I'll go with a young Lizzie and a young "veiled girl"

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:59 pm

Yes in fiction anything is possible. She can go to the moon.

BTW: Personally, I have really appreciated your lighthearted attitude and your open-mindedness!

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:13 pm

Dwilly, it would be interesting to see some serious lesbian fiction about Lizzie. Of course we have the Evan Hunter book but I found that book to be very disappointing because of the over-the-top solution to the murders at the end. I didn't feel the sexual element in the murders needed to be so extreme and for me it ruined the entire book, although I do occassionally read parts of it every now and then because I admire aspects of it in many ways.

As for my girl detective fiction, I'm deliberately keeping her sexuality ambiguous. In the second story I'm writing, the Melancholy Scion, I do have her "fall in love" with a young man but its more of a profound and intense admiration for his elegance and intelligence. It's still ambiguous whether she is heterosexual or not. I think the character works best that way.

Kat, it's really delightful to hear your insights into the story. I do agree that because Lizzie is a blank slate (we know so little about her interior subjective life) there is a lot of room there for invention.

It was interesting to play around with Andrew's dynamics. I find adding these dimensions to the characters that they may NOT have had in real life, but COULD have had, I'm deepening the characters. Of course ultimately, they are characters, not the real people. But I'm very determined to do things that COULD have been. The biggest suspension of disbelief I'm allowing are Homer's inventions which get more outrageous in each story.

Earlier, I did let the cat out of the bag and reveal that I based some of the characterization of the girl detective on an old girlfriend of mine from the 80s who was, coincidentally enough, named Lizzie. So I'm projecting my old Lizzie onto the blank slate of a teen Lizzie Borden. With amusing results!

I'm so happy you all liked it.

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:23 pm

Richard - I'm glad to hear you're doing another Lizzie/detective story! If I gave you some new ideas to work with, great. But please know I wasn't criticizing your story. It was fine as it was. That was just stuff I would have done, that's all.

If you go too far out on a limb, like Satterwhaite's (sp?) "Miss Lizzie", tho his book was fiction it still crossed over the line, I thought, to the ridiculous point and ended up being just dumb instead of creatively entertaining. Your story was creatively entertaining.

I am already looking forward to the next one!
(Were you the Forum member who was looking for personal traits of Hosea Knowlton? I have some on him that you might find interesting, if you haven't heard them already.)

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:49 pm

Augusta, constructive criticism is very very wlecome! And the things you pointed out were extremely helpful. Thanks for the feedback!

I was looking for info on Hosea Knowlton. I'm directing an actor who is going to play him in an audio cd I'm producing and I'd like to give him some direction rather than let him do all the research by himself.

If you want to contact me privately, feel free. Or if you don't mind, perhaps you can start a new thread about Knowlton and share it with the Forum. Either way, I would love to hear what you have.

Bob Gutowski · Post by **Bob Gutowski** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:09 pm

I loved the nod to "A Scandal in Bohemia!" A lovely piece of writing!

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:09 pm

Bob, thank you. I didn't think anyone would notice!

I was going to call Sarah, Irene Adler Borden, but thought that might be going too far!

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:36 pm

augusta @ Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:23 pm wrote:Richard - I'm glad to hear you're doing another Lizzie/detective story! If I gave you some new ideas to work with, great. But please know I wasn't criticizing your story. It was fine as it was. That was just stuff I would have done, that's all.

If you go too far out on a limb, like Satterwhaite's (sp?) "Miss Lizzie", tho his book was fiction it still crossed over the line, I thought, to the ridiculous point and ended up being just dumb instead of creatively entertaining. Your story was creatively entertaining.

I am already looking forward to the next one!
(Were you the Forum member who was looking for personal traits of Hosea Knowlton? I have some on him that you might find interesting, if you haven't heard them already.)

Professional writers know what will sell and reward their talents.
Truth? Its what works, some say. You can look at current cultural products and decide for yourself.

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:39 pm

Haulover @ Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:04 pm wrote:ray, do you subscribe to The Hatchet? If not, why don't you? it's not expensive. i would think you would find it interesting.

ANY payment could compromise my anonymity. I won't even explain the origin of my nom de plume.