Lizzie is of a repellent disposition, and after an unsuccessful passage with her father would become sulky and refuse to speak to him for days at a time. She moved in the best society in Fall River, was a member of the Congregational Church, and is a brilliant conversationalist.
Seems a bit contradictory to me.
It occurs to me that Hiram could have meant that she was "repellent" as a raincoat is water-repellent: i.e., repelling rather than repulsive. Ya think?
A man ... wants to give his wife ... the interest in a little homestead where her sister lives. How wicked to have found fault with it. How petty to have found fault with it. (Hosea Knowlton in his closing argument.)
(Maybe that's why she didn't have any blood on her.)
A man ... wants to give his wife ... the interest in a little homestead where her sister lives. How wicked to have found fault with it. How petty to have found fault with it. (Hosea Knowlton in his closing argument.)
It's an interesting intrepretation.
What else does he say, tho, in context? That might help decide.
I recall Lizzie was described as not having friends when she was young. It might be that she was not socially adept which might be considered repelling other children rather than making them sick (as in repulsive)!
A man ... wants to give his wife ... the interest in a little homestead where her sister lives. How wicked to have found fault with it. How petty to have found fault with it. (Hosea Knowlton in his closing argument.)
Lizzie, on the contrary, was haughty and domineering with the stubborn will of her father and bound to contest for her rights. There were many animated interviews between father and daughter on this point. Lizzie is of a repellant disposition, and after an unsuccessful passage with her father would become sulky and refuse to speak to him for days at a time.
Taking the above as context, I would interpret Hiram's use of the phrase repellant disposition as to mean that she was rather hard, stubborn as a blue-nosed mule, to put it mildly.
A kind remark would be to say that she had the attractive qualities of a moth to a flame. But Hiram (at least as I read it) seems to be going in the opposing direction altogether - implying that in certain situations Lizzie possessed attractive qualities similar to those a dung heap holds for the bluebottle fly.
I staid the night for shelter at a farm behind the mountains, with a mother and son - two "old-believers." They did all the talking...
- Robert Frost
Another thought that occurs to me is that this might be Hiram's malapropism for rebellious.
Kindness is not what I am after. I am not an apologist for Lizzie, especially if, as I believe, she was guilty. (Even if she weren't (note the subjunctive), I cannot admire her for turning against her stepmother because her father bought her half a house in order that her sister would not lose her home. As Knowlton rightly said, "How wicked to have found fault with it. How petty to have found fault with it.")
A man ... wants to give his wife ... the interest in a little homestead where her sister lives. How wicked to have found fault with it. How petty to have found fault with it. (Hosea Knowlton in his closing argument.)
Angel @ Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:26 am wrote:I would interpret the word "repellant" when used to discribe someone to mean that her disposition was apt to turn people away from her.
I tend to agree. Besides the meaning of causing disgust, I have always taken it to mean to push away from. If you look at the many definitions of repellent online it also means to drive away, drive back, ward off, push backward, etc...I tend to think he meant she pushed people away. I think her personality kept people at a distance from her.
"He who cannot put his thoughts on ice should not enter into the head of dispute." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Angel @ Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:26 am wrote:I would interpret the word "repellant" when used to discribe someone to mean that her disposition was apt to turn people away from her.
Some seem naive about the newspaper game. Editors know how to use a word to suggest something that would bring a libel suit if directly expressed.
EG: an 'exotic' dancer to suggest an 'erotic' dancer. OR a 'repellant' disposition to suggest a 'repulsive' dispostion. Sometime you have to read the newspaper or magazine closely, as if they were the lies of advertisers.
Then there is the problem in how words evolve or change. Back in the 1950s "bombing a test" had a different meaning from the 1970s.
Allen @ Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:07 am wrote:...
I tend to agree. Besides the meaning of causing disgust, I have always taken it to mean to push away from. If you look at the many definitions of repellent online it also means to drive away, drive back, ward off, push backward, etc...I tend to think he meant she pushed people away. I think her personality kept people at a distance from her.
Then again, you have to consider the source (not done here).
Hiram Harrington, Andy's brother in law, was on the outs with him. Andy's daughters were sure to follow Andy's lead. Or do you know something as an eyewitness to the relationship?
It was Farmer William in the Bedroom with the Hatchet.
I think we might also consider that Hiram may have used the wrong word in describing how he perceived Lizzie's personality or disposition.
There was obviously no love lost between Hiram and Lizzie; Lizzie indicated, I believe, that she suspected HIM...and from everything I've read, he suspected HER! Lizzie also "dropped" the Harringtons. It doesn't seem that Hiram liked Lizzie at all.
What I mean when I say he used the wrong word is that sometimes people grasp for a word when trying to describe something, and use the wrong word; perhaps he was not what you would call an educated person. I think his meaning was that she had an unpleasant disposition, at least as far as he was concerned.
My ex-husband was not a well educated person, and would frequently misuse words. My favorite was his announcement one night that "he had a CROW to pick with me"....rather than a BONE to pick with me. My kids and I still hoot with laughter over that one!
I don't think there was much love between Hiram and Lizzie. Does anyone know if Hiram ever said anything about Emma? It seems to me that Lizzie was usually the one who had problems with relatives. Lizzie didn't like John Morse and yet, Emma kept in touch with him. I think Orrin Gardner was Emma's and Lizzie's cousin. When Emma died she put Gardner in her Will but I don't think Lizzie included him.
There must have been some things about Lizzie to like. She did have friends both before and after the murders. I can't find it now but there is an interview that Nance O'Neil gave in which she said very nice things about Lizzie. And if I'm not mistaken the interview came after Lizzie's death so, it's not as if Nance had to say nice things about her.
SallyG @ Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:45 pm wrote:I think we might also consider that Hiram may have used the wrong word in describing how he perceived Lizzie's personality or disposition.
There was obviously no love lost between Hiram and Lizzie; Lizzie indicated, I believe, that she suspected HIM...and from everything I've read, he suspected HER! Lizzie also "dropped" the Harringtons. It doesn't seem that Hiram liked Lizzie at all.
What I mean when I say he used the wrong word is that sometimes people grasp for a word when trying to describe something, and use the wrong word; perhaps he was not what you would call an educated person. I think his meaning was that she had an unpleasant disposition, at least as far as he was concerned.
My ex-husband was not a well educated person, and would frequently misuse words. My favorite was his announcement one night that "he had a CROW to pick with me"....rather than a BONE to pick with me. My kids and I still hoot with laughter over that one!
Some have questioned that story, given the few minutes available. If Lizzie did not speak to Hiram Harrington, just where did that story come from.
To me, it sounds like some provocation designed to get Lizzie to speak out.
It was Farmer William in the Bedroom with the Hatchet.
The author of the article sumed up Nance's view of Lizzie this way:
She found the reserved little gentlewoman, with her gray eyes and graying hair and her unmistakable air of refinement and intellect, distinctively attractive. She was exceedingly well read, conversant with the best literature, and spoke interestingly of her travels abroad, which Miss O’Neil recalled as extensive. With her intellectual qualities she combined kindness and thought for others and a great fondness for animals. She was a life member, Miss O’Neil recalled, of the Boston Animal Rescue league.
Thanks for the link, SteveS.
Notice how that topic screeched to a halt?
9. "Re: Just wondering....."
Posted by rays on Nov-1st-03 at 11:24 AM
In response to Message #6.
That is true. It is also true that a gossipper would not help his or her job prospects, then or now. Until they retired, and needed the money. Like that ex-MI6 agent who spilled the beans after he retired to Australia; they cheated him out of some of his pension ("Spycatcher").
Perhaps Hiram Harrington meant that when Lizzie didn't get her way, she repelled whomever didn't grant her wish. The context seems to include the aftermath of an argument. I expect that pointedly ignoring someone is a way to repel them. He may not have been addressing Lizzie's disposition in general, only when she had lost an argument.
To do is to be. ~Socrates
To be is to do. ~Kant
Do be do be do. ~Sinatra
The impression I come away with is that Lizzie had the vocabulary and conversational skill to be very agreeable when she chose to be so, or it was to her advantage. Being of a willing disposition, volunteering for various church organizations, and being of an agreeable nature would be an asset in moving in superior social circles. Entertaining Sarah Whitehead in the Second Street parlor did not require her to exert any of these virtues and graces- therefore she did not extend herself for those she considered not worthy.
