VIRGINIA TECH SHOOTINGS!!!

SallyG · Post by **SallyG** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:24 pm

What a horrible tragedy! My #2 son went there and graduated in 2004! He stayed in Ambler Johnson Hall, the dormitory where the first student was shot. He has been contacting his friends who are still there to see if everyone is ok.

I've been there several times while he was a student. It is such a peaceful and beautiful campus, I would have never imagined something like that could have happened!

I am so glad he has graduated, because if he was still a student, I'd be in the middle of a heart attack right now!!

SallyG · Post by **SallyG** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:24 pm

31 dead so far!! My son Donald has been in constant contact by cell phone with his friends down on the campus. Their thinking is that the shooter was a student, since to get into the dorm for the first shooting, he would have needed a card to gain entrance.

Also, the students killed may have all been from one classroom and that one was target for some reason and it was not a random thing.

SallyG · Post by **SallyG** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:08 pm

Son just called and is in contact with more kids down there...definitely the German teacher was killed, the classroom had 20 students. (There is no languages building, so the language classes are among the different buildings). It sounds like now he hit more than just one classroom. Also, he apparently had at least 2 guns with him, and the gunshots were pretty rapid-fire. However, since he had to go across campus, they must have been something that could be concealed in a backpack, etc.

shakiboo · Post by **shakiboo** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:04 pm

Oh that's terrible, I haven't had the news on all day, so I hadn't heard a thing. You just never know anymore................so sad! Glad your son's no where near there. but so many other peoples children are.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:59 pm

Thanks SallyG for the reports. Pretty horrific events.

Nadzieja · Post by **Nadzieja** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:19 pm

I find this type of news so upsetting. What a horrible and senseless waste of life. My heart goes out to all those families.

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:50 pm

Today's news said he was taking a medication for depression.
Is this another Prozac-liked murder and suicide?
You've heard of this, of course.

Prior to the 1968 Gun Control Act and the elimination of ROTC, there were NEVER any such school shootings. Creating "Gun Free Zones" makes magnets for madmen. OR madwomen, like that girl in the Penna shopping mall circa 1989.

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:21 pm

Life is so much stressful for people today than in decades past. It should be no surprise that these kinds of killings happen and will continue to get worse. Kids have access to bomb making info on the internet so the bomb will be the next weapon of choice. And when that does happen, watch the carnage drastically increase. You can kill more with a bomb, quicker than you can with a gun. When that happens, you just watch the short-sighted people trying to ban the Clorox under your kitchen sink.

It's a shame this kind of thing happens. I feel for the victims and their families. But I also feel for the 40,000 victims of car wrecks each year that few people think twice about. Too bad some of the sudents were not armed, trained and allowed to defend themselves. But then that would have been a crime.

Their families must be going through hell right now. Unfortunately it will happen again.

-1bigsteve )o:

Liz Crouthers · Post by **Liz Crouthers** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:03 pm

I really hope it doesn't happen again b/c every time it does our school keeps getting more strict with their rules. We cannot leave class for any reason regardless of if we are going to pee our pants. We can't do anything its prison. I know its for the best but still.

What's going to happen to me when I go to college?

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:06 pm

I couldn't even comment on the shootings yesterday, I was so totally offended; a local radio station was making jokes each time they heard of an addition to the body count! I was just floored by the total callousness of these jerks. I understand people handle stress in different ways, but this went beyond bad taste. I contacted the radio station and gave them a piece of my mind. When I think of all those poor students and teachers and now the families left to pick up the pieces and try to make sense of the whole thing, it just tears my heart out.

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:17 pm

Susan @ Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:06 pm wrote:I couldn't even comment on the shootings yesterday, I was so totally offended; a local radio station was making jokes each time they heard of an addition to the body count! I was just floored by the total callousness of these jerks. I understand people handle stress in different ways, but this went beyond bad taste. I contacted the radio station and gave them a piece of my mind. When I think of all those poor students and teachers and now the families left to pick up the pieces and try to make sense of the whole thing, it just tears my heart out.

Good for you, Susan!!

There is never a reason to make jokes about the suffering of others. Never. These students and their families are going through one hell of a time and they don't need some smart-mouth cracking one-liners over the radio.

-1bigsteve )o;

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:38 pm

Liz Crouthers @ Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:03 pm wrote:I really hope it doesn't happen again b/c every time it does our school keeps getting more strict with their rules. We cannot leave class for any reason regardless of if we are going to pee our pants. We can't do anything its prison. I know its for the best but still.

What's going to happen to me when I go to college?

People 18 and over have rights that children don't. You can't force grown people to stay in doors so I don't think you will have too much to worry about in college, Liz.

When I was in school they had a policy that no one goes to the bathroom except during recess, not even during lunch. We didn't have school killings in the '50's but the teachers did wear "sensible shoes." I think they were made in Germany.

I remember one girl who begged again and again to use the restroom and the battle-axe refused and the poor girl loaded her drawers, and I'm not talking pee. I felt so bad for her I wanted to kill the teacher. Been there, done that.

Keeping students indoors won't make them safer. If a killer gets in he will have a turkey shoot like yesterday. Lock the door and he will blow it off or he gets in through a window. At least outside kids can run for it. Those unarmed kids didn't have a chance. That is what makes it so sad.

-1bigsteve )o;

SallyG · Post by **SallyG** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:18 pm

The whole thing is so sad and tragic. I know people want to assign blame, but I think the school and the police made the decisions that were right at the time. When the first shooting occurred, no one really was clear on what had really happened; if it had been a murder/sucide or what. I'm sure it never occurred to them that one of the students had gone over the edge and was going to mount a killing spree.

Everyone says they should have closed the campus. Good idea. Virginia Tech is huge..and I mean HUGE. There are 26,000 students attending; 9,000 of them live on campus; many dorms; hundreds of buildings; many, many roads in and out of the campus. Most of the students live off campus and were on their way into early classes when it happened, so it was not possible to contact them. Trying to close the campus would be like trying to close off a town in a short time. There is no way things could have been shut down before he struck again. Sending emails was the most efficient way of trying to notify everyone.

I feel such sorrow for the students and teachers who were killed, and the families that are left to deal with their loss. I feel sorrow for the family of the shooter who, I'm sure, loved their son very much. And I feel sorrow for the shooter; a young man who was mentally ill and very disturbed. I'm sure we will never really know what drove him to such a terrible deed. It's a tragedy that he was unable or unwilling to get the help he so obviously needed.

My second son graduated from Virginia Tech, and stayed in Ambler Johnston dorm, which they referred to as AJ. He's totally devastated that something like that happened at the college that he felt so safe and secure at. But it could have been any college, any university.

I hope they can make some sense out of what happened and why.

Yooper · Post by **Yooper** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:59 pm

This was a terrible tragedy and an awful waste. The news reports seem occupied with trying to find out why it happened. There is no good reason. They want to know about the shooter's background, as though looking for an excuse. There is no excuse. I'm afraid the school is going to have some explaining to do. Two people were found dead with no murder weapon found, a killer was on the loose. At 7:15 am, I don't imagine any classes were in session and the lecture halls were probably still locked, so it might have been a matter of simply not unlocking the buildings rather than locking them up. If the classes had been canceled and the building locked, some of this might have been prevented. I also have to wonder if this event would have even crossed the shooter's mind if there was the possibility that some of the students and the instructors might be armed.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:33 pm

I don't think we can blame the University. From their press conferences and news reports, it seems like they did what they could with what little information they had. They had no idea what this guy had planned. It sounds like he even left the campus between rampages, when the package got mailed to NBC.

I just can't imagine the University knowingly putting students, faculty, etc., at risk. As an educator, I know we have a disater plan which includes specific plans for diferent emergency situations...including a school intruder and/or shooter. We try to the best of our knowledge have all situations covered. We would not want to have harm come to ANY staff member or student. We do our best to make sure our school campus is as safe as it can possibly be. I sincerely hope that with all of our efforts, planning, and preparation, that we NEVER have a "situation" come up that catches us off-guard in the same way way things happened at Columbine, Paducah, or Virginia Tech.

Many schools (K-12) now do not allow students to carry backpacks in the hallways/classrooms. They may use them to get their books and things to and from school, but that's it. At my school, we do not allow heavy coats in class. I have my students leave their backpacks on a table at the front of the room. They are not allowed to get into them during class. Yesterday, there was a lone backpack left in the hallway...When I found out who it belonged to, I made sure to talk to that student and reminded him that things like that are EXTREMELY suspicious and that he needed to properly take care of his backpack. I wish there was more I could do.

My heart and prayers go out to all connected with the Virginia Tech tragedy.

Tracy...

SallyG · Post by **SallyG** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:06 am

Yooper @ Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:59 pm wrote:This was a terrible tragedy and an awful waste. The news reports seem occupied with trying to find out why it happened. There is no good reason. They want to know about the shooter's background, as though looking for an excuse. There is no excuse. I'm afraid the school is going to have some explaining to do. Two people were found dead with no murder weapon found, a killer was on the loose. At 7:15 am, I don't imagine any classes were in session and the lecture halls were probably still locked, so it might have been a matter of simply not unlocking the buildings rather than locking them up. If the classes had been canceled and the building locked, some of this might have been prevented. I also have to wonder if this event would have even crossed the shooter's mind if there was the possibility that some of the students and the instructors might be armed.

I know classes start very early...some as early at 8am. Again, there are literally hundreds of buildings on campus and at that early hour, students are coming in for early classes. There are thousands of students swarming over the campus. It would be hours before all buildings could be secured and locked down; by that time, the shooter would have been where he wanted to be. Even if they had suspected someone was out to kill more people, who would they look for? Classes can't be cancelled at the last minute. And even if the buildings had been locked down, he could easily have targeted the hundreds and thousands of students walking the campus.

Believe me, my son and I have discussed it backwards and forwards. He knows that campus like the back of his hand, and he's confident that there was no way to prevent it in the time they had. It's easy to second guess what SHOULD have happened, but NO ONE anticipated what was going to happen.

Yooper · Post by **Yooper** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:23 am

I'm not blaming the University for the events, they couldn't possibly have foreseen the shootings. However, knowing there was a murderer on the loose who had already targeted people on campus, and knowing that classroom or lecture hall environments crowd several unarmed people into a small area with limited ingress and egress, they will very likely have to explain their actions. I'm sure they did what they thought was right and I'm sure that hindsight is always 20/20. Maybe a viable emergency plan will result from this tragedy which might save lives in the future.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:40 am

I believe they had no idea who the murderer was or that he was even in the area after the first shooting. They didn't know. If they had, they would have done things differently I am sure. I can almost guarantee that they already have an emergency plan. It is usually a requirement as part of a safetly or risk management policy. But how could they have an 'exact' plan for this 'exact' situation ? With the 20/20 hindsight, maybe they will be able to come up with improvements. However, I still think it would be next to impossible to come through an attack like that completely unscathed no matter how great the emergency plan is, short of having the Secret Service working the campus.

Tracy...

Yooper · Post by **Yooper** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:13 am

Being able to protect everyone at all times is impossible. Minimizing the risk is not. Shutting down the campus would not have protected everyone, but it would have minimized exposure. The alternative was to allow everyone to be at risk. I agree, they didn't know who the shooter was or where he was, so they had no reason to believe that he had left the campus. No one can expect personal protection from any institution, not even the police. They are not charged with protecting any one individual, only the public at large.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:51 am

The time gap between the two actions is strange in itself. Like the Borden case it's not the norm. Did they shut down the first building, and if so, was it still shut at the time of the second action?

There is no system that can protect everyone or even notify everyone especially when there is such a large campus involved. Perhaps if they had a simple siren system that could be heard all over the campus and area would have at least alerted the vast majority of the students.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:42 am

There was mention in some of the news stories about a public address system. As was mentioned previously, we are looking at this with our 20/20 hindsight...and while that won't help or change what happened THIS week, it has very much raised awareness and will help change campus security for the future.

I still feel the Virginia Tech officials did the best they could with what information they had at the time.

Tracy...