Has anyone read Private disgrace.. what you thought of it

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:12 pm

Has anyone read "A Private Disgrace: Lizzie Borden by daylight." by Victoria Lincoln? What did you all think of it?

terrie · Post by **terrie** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:13 pm

I read it years ago, in college. I remember being pretty engrossed in it, but bothered by the very haughty and arrogant tone the author took.

Maybe I should re-read it. It seems to be a respected book.

stuartwsa · Post by **stuartwsa** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:17 pm

It had a big influence on me when I was a teenager. I know that it is not well thought of in all circles, but Lincoln and her book really got me thinking of the Bordens as human beings, instead of just a strangely remote family in Fall River history.

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:30 pm

Think it will be the next lizzie book for me to get.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:44 am

Here are some links to past reviews and discussions on Lincoln, which you may find helpful, informative, or whatever:

THE BORDEN BOOK CLUB (Lincoln - Chapter 1 / Sections 1-5):
viewtopic.php?t=623&highlight=

BORDEN BOOK CLUB (Lincoln / Chapters 6-11):
viewtopic.php?t=644&highlight=

BORDEN BOOK CLUB (Lincoln / Book 2):
viewtopic.php?t=664&highlight=

BORDEN BOOK CLUB (Lincoln / Book 3):
viewtopic.php?t=684&highlight=

BORDEN BOOK CLUB (LINCOLN / BOOK FOUR):
viewtopic.php?t=722&highlight=

BORDEN BOOK CLUB (LINCOLN / BOOK 5 & EPILOGUE):
viewtopic.php?t=805&highlight=

Tracy...

terrie · Post by **terrie** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:41 pm

Wow --- thanks for the reminder of that thread Tracy --- I had forgotten it. I guess I re-read Lincoln in 2004 and didn't like it any better than I did when I was in college :)

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:31 am

Thanks Tracy!
I always admire members who can do a search and find stuff and give links!

nbcatlover · Post by **nbcatlover** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:08 pm

Lincoln is very biased, but this makes sense if you remember that Fall River was a city of business syndicates at this time. Andrew Borden traveled in a different business circle and was a competitor, not friend, to Lincoln's family.

Lots of good gossip and great sense of place.

Worth reading, but it's not gospel truth.

Tina-Kate · Post by **Tina-Kate** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:21 am

"A Private Disgrace" is very well-written & great for the flavour of Old Fall River as seen by a native. Unfortunately, Victoria Lincoln did not have access to much of the research we have today. An awful lot of it is from hearsay, Fall River gossip. I also have a big problem with her epilepsy theory.

I think it's probably a good book to read when someone is 1st starting out to read on the case as long as one doesn't take it for gospel. It's awfully hard to read it once you have a very good grasp of the facts because the errors are so rampant it's distracting.

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:07 am

I have always felt that Lincoln's book was about as plausable as most of the other's. More so than Brown's book. I don't buy her epilepsy theory. But her hiding a dress in a dress makes sense. It has been years since I read it. It is certainly worth reading, Snoks.

-1bigsteve (o:

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:51 pm

I have always thought Victorian Lincoln's book was a very good read. There may be errors within the book, but that is true of every book on the case besides Rebello. Even the newspapers which gave day to day accounts at the time made grave errors. It's hard to get any account that isn't either biased in some way, or full of the "lizzie lore" we've come to know so well.However, Lincoln does indeed come up with some very plausible scenarios. As Steve said the dress within a dress idea is very interesting. So is the idea she proposed about Lizzie hiding the axe in her slop pail. Or cleaning herself up after the killings with the menstrual napkins. Lincoln also explained little things I had not had answers for before reading her book, such as the wrappers Lizzie had been supposedly addressing on the day of the murders.

Her somewhat haughty attitude towards the Bordens, and Abby in particular, tends to be a sore point with some people here. But as Tina-Kate pointed out she was raised in Fall River. Her family knew the Bordens. She was privy to gossip the about the family that had been passed down to her. Whether that gossip is true or not, it provides us with information non the less. If gives us an honest peek at the attitude of the residents of Fall River toward the Bordens. If this was the attitude Lincoln, a native of Fall River, had for Miss Lizzie Borden, what does that show about the possible opinions of the rest of the population? Even if you do not really take to the epilepsy theory, she does raise some pretty thought provoking points.

SallyG · Post by **SallyG** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:47 pm

My problem with Lincoln was how she constantly disparaged Abby by painting her as "fat and friendless". Abby's pictures of her when young show a very attractive woman, and let's not forget, she was in her 60's at the time of the murders. Lincoln talks about Abby as though she was morbidly obese, a chronic eater, and rarely if ever left the house.

Her dress within a dress theory was plausible, but she talks as if all women would have caught onto this. I, for one, have never hung one piece of clothing over another on a hanger, nor have I "lost" a piece of clothing because it was hanging under something else. It's an interesting theory, though.

While I enjoyed the book, and I do reread it on occasion, I just can't stand her haughty and condescending atittude. It really was not necessary.

NESpinster · Post by **NESpinster** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:14 am

I've only recently purchased a copy, and I'm getting ready to read it--it looks great!!!

kfactor · Post by **kfactor** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:13 pm

SallyG @ Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:47 pm wrote:My problem with Lincoln was how she constantly disparaged Abby by painting her as "fat and friendless". Abby's pictures of her when young show a very attractive woman, and let's not forget, she was in her 60's at the time of the murders. Lincoln talks about Abby as though she was morbidly obese, a chronic eater, and rarely if ever left the house.

The disparaging comments about Abby throughout the book struck me as well. This seemed unusually cruel in light of the nature of the crime.

I enjoyed the book, as I do all books on the Borden topic, but Lincoln's treatment of Abby sort of made me question Lincoln's credibility and motives for writing the book (just my own bias).

If you haven't read it, I recommend it.