Speaking slowly

[Harry]

One of the more curious things in Bridget's Preliminary testimony is when she related the conversation Lizzie had with her father when he came home on the 4th. From page 79:

"Q. What passed between them then?
A. I heard Miss Lizzie tell him about a note, that the mother had a note, and had gone out, very slowly. They were talking very slowly, and were talking to themselves.
Q. Why do you put in that expression, "very slowly"? Why do you use that expression, because she said it so?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Because she said that very much more slowly than anything else she said?
A. Well, no.
Q. She did not?
A. No Sir.
Q. Everything she said, she said very slowly?
A. Ordinarily slow.
Q. Do you mean I should understand when she spoke about the letter or note, that Mrs. Borden had got, she spoke more slowly than she did the rest of it?
A. No Sir, just the same.
Q. And had gone out?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Did her father make any reply to that?
A. No Sir. I did not hear him saying anything."

My initial inclination when I first heard that she talked 'very slowly' was that she was making up the note story as she talked. But then Bridget says everything that she said was spoken slowly. Unfortunately we do not know the rest of the conversation between the two.

Bridget's answer that she spoke "ordinarily slow" I take to mean slower than she usually talked. I don't know of anyone saying that Lizzie normally talked slowly.

Other than making sure her father understood what she was saying to him I can't think of a reason why Lizzie would talk slowly. Any ideas?

[stuartwsa]

Perhaps Lizzie had begun to tell Andrew about the note, and she was talking too fast, so he asked her to slow down and begin again. Pure supposition on my part, but it's the only logical answer I can think of...unless she was saying it all 'very slowly' so that Bridget could hear and understand every word.

[shakiboo]

Maybe it was because of Andrew, if he wasn't feeling well, Lizzie was talking slowly for his benefit. Like you would for a child you were trying to explain something to.

[Shelley]

"unless she was saying it all 'very slowly' so that Bridget could hear and understand every word.

Yes, I think you've got it. Bridget was meant to hear that note story too. Not only did Andrew have to be reassured that Abby was not in the house, but so did Bridget. With the meal drawing ever nearer, suppose Bridget had looked for Abby to ask about any changes to the luncheon menu, ?-After all, Abby could have gone out to the store to pick up some meat or something else. Bridget may have known John was coming back- any number of last minute details. And of course Lizzie could not risk Bridget hunting Abby up, and Bridget might have known to call up or go up the front stairs to Abby's sewing nook if she could not see Abby elsewhere.

All we know about lunch at that point was that the table was already set, which was not an uncommon practice in households. I would imagine Bridget would have consulted Abby at some point about the lunch, and the natural time might have been early that morning to see if she needed to make anything special, or later, after Abby would have come back from the stores.

By carefully and slowly going over the note story to Andrew, it drew Bridget's attention too. I suspect Bridget, like most servants, always kept one ear out for family conversations- it made the daily drudgery more interesting to eavesdrop on family daily drama. I would have asked Bridget if she noticed Lizzie was also speaking in a louder volume than usual. Of course, they all might have been in the same room or very close by at the time.

[Harry]

Bridget said she was in the sitting room and they were in the dining room when she heard their discussion.

Lizzie made sure Bridget knew Abbie was gone as on page 81 Bridget says:

"Q. Did she [Lizzie] say anything to you?
A. She said then, was I going out. She asked me if I was going out this afternoon. I said I did not know, I might and I might not. I was not feeling very well. She said if I went out, to be sure and fasten the back door, she might be out too, and Mrs. Borden out. Mrs. Borden had a note that morning, she said she had gone out on a sick call. I asked who was sick. She said she had a note that morning; so it must be in town."

If I read Bridget's testimony right Andrew was home at this time and in the sitting room reading. So even if both Lizzie and Bridget left there would still be someone in the house. Why was it necessary to warn Bridget about something she normally did anyway. It was Lizzie herself who stated this at the Inquest (p59):

"Q. Did you let your father out?
A. No sir; he went out himself.
Q. Did you fasten the door after him?
A. No sir.
Q. Did Maggie?
A. I don't know. When she went up stairs she always locked the door; she had charge of the back door."

That last line is especially intriguing. Did she make sure the side door was locked when she went up stairs for her rest?

[Shelley]

Lizzie made sure Bridget knew Abbie was gone as on page 81 Bridget says:

"Q. Did she [Lizzie] say anything to you?
A. She said then, was I going out. She asked me if I was going out this afternoon. I said I did not know, I might and I might not. I was not feeling very well. She said if I went out, to be sure and fasten the back door, she might be out too, and Mrs. Borden out. Mrs. Borden had a note that morning, she said she had gone out on a sick call. I asked who was sick. She said she had a note that morning; so it must be in town."


So, do we know when Bridget had this conversation with Lizzie? I thought this was the same time that Andrew was also being informed about the note. Or was this conversation before Andrew got home? Was this later repeated to re-enforce the note and the fact of Abby's absence from the house, I wonder. . .

[Shelley]

I have also always wondered why Bridget assumed it was to Sarah Whitehead's that Abby had gone when she asks for directions to the house much later after Andrew is found. If Lizzie had told her it was "someone in town"-why did she assume it was Sarah? I would also have thought that Abby would have said it was Sarah, if she ever really had that conversation with Lizzie. It would really be peculiar to refer to one's family member as "someone in town". Of course that whole note business is strange. It would have been so much more logical and typical conversationally that Abby would have just said, "Mary is sick", - "I'm going to call on old Mrs. So-and So"-. If there were no note, of course, and nobody really was sick, then Lizzie would have to say "someone", because it could be checked later on otherwise.

[Harry]

So, do we know when Bridget had this conversation with Lizzie? I thought this was the same time that Andrew was also being informed about the note. Was this to re-enforce the note and the fact of Abby's absence from the house, I wonder. . .

It appears to be two separate conversations. This is what Bridget testified to immediately following her testimony about Lizzie telling her about the note (p81+):

"Q. Did she say anythingelse to you then?
A. Not then.
Q. Directly afterwards?
A. I got through with my work, and was in the kitchen. Then she told me there was a sale of dress goods in Sargent's, eight cents a yard. I said I would have one. That is all.
Q. Did not she make the statement about the sale of dress goods at Frank Sargeants, if that is the name, two or three days before that?
A. No Sir.
Q. Did she ever tell you about any sale at Sargeants before this particular day?
A. No Sir.
Q. It is the first time she ever mentioned it?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. About any chance of buying any?
A. Yes sir. Emma had a good many times told me about bargains.
Q. Miss Lizzie had not before, so far as you recollect?
A. No Sir.
Q. What did you do next?
A. I went up stairs directly after that."

[Harry]

Just browsed through Bridget's trial testimony. She testifies that she heard the part about the note but was not able to make out the rest of their conversation. Oddly there is no mention of Lizzie talking very slowly either on direct or on cross-examination.

[twinsrwe]

One of the more curious things in Bridget's Preliminary testimony is when she related the conversation Lizzie had with her father when he came home on the 4th. From page 79:

"Q. What passed between them then?
A. I heard Miss Lizzie tell him about a note, that the mother had a note, and had gone out, very slowly. They were talking very slowly, and were talking to themselves.
Q. Why do you put in that expression, "very slowly"? Why do you use that expression, because she said it so?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Because she said that very much more slowly than anything else she said?
A. Well, no.
Q. She did not?
A. No Sir.
Q. Everything she said, she said very slowly?
A. Ordinarily slow.
Q. Do you mean I should understand when she spoke about the letter or note, that Mrs. Borden had got, she spoke more slowly than she did the rest of it?
A. No Sir, just the same.
Q. And had gone out?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Did her father make any reply to that?
A. No Sir. I did not hear him saying anything."
...

My initial interpretation was that Lizzie talked "very slowly" normally, in all of her conversations. It was not specified if all of the questions pertained to just the note conversation between Lizzie and Andrew or if Lizzie talked slowly in all of her conversations. We can only assume that the questions pertained to only the note conversation. I don't know of anyone saying that Lizzie normally talked slowly, either, however, that doesn't mean she didn't.

I find the last sentence of Bridget's answer to the first question quite telling where she states: "They were talking very slowly, and were talking to themselves." According to this statement, it appears that both Lizzie and Andrew were talking very slowly. I find it interesting that the line of questions pertained only to Lizzie talking slowly - what about Andrew talking slowly? Perhaps, Lizzie and Andrew were in a habit of speaking slowly to each other, and maybe Bridget added in the words "very slowly" because she found it irritating.

However, upon further thought, I wonder if Andrew was hard of hearing? People tend to speak louder to someone who is hard of hearing. However, my grandmother, who was hard of hearing, always asked that I speak slowly and not so loud. Over time, I learned to speak to her slowly, in a normal tone of voice. She could then hear and understand everything I said to her.

[Susan]

I looked through the Preliminary and found a slightly different version of the conversation, I guess its ground that was gone over a few times: Page 20

Q. Did you hear her say anything to Mr. Borden?
A. I heard her ask him if had any mail for her. I heard her telling her father very slowly that her mother got a note, that Mrs. Borden had a note that morning, and had gone out.

Q. You heard her telling that very slowly?
A. Yes Sir, to her father.

Q. Had got a note?
A. From some sick person. Of course the conversation was very low, I did not pay attention to it; but I heard her telling her father that.

Q. What else did you hear her say to her father?
A. Not any more.

Perhaps the "slowly" came from something like that Lizzie couldn't lie to her father? She knew she had to tell him a fib about Abby going out and the note and couldn't face him while she lied. So, perhaps Lizzie fussed with her handkerchiefs or something in the dining room pretending to be preoccupied or actually was preoccupied with what she was doing and the story of the note came out hesitatingly. Andrew must have bought it, as he never questioned her further that we know of?

According to Bridget the conversation was low, so, I don't think it was for her account that Lizzie spoke slowly. It must have been for Andrew's benefit only. It made me wonder that if Andrew was hard of hearing if Bridget would have just mentioned it? Something like, "I heard her telling her father about the note very slowly for Mr. Borden is hard of hearing."? Especially once Bridget is questioned about the "slowly", you think she might shed a bit more light on it.

[diana]

That is an interesting part in Bridget's Prelim. testimony about Lizzie talking "slowly". It illustrates some of the courtoom jousting that went on between the prosecution and defense.

Initially it appears under Knowlton's questioning that Lizzie talks particularly slowly to her father about the note -- as if she was emphasizing it in some way.
"Q. Did you hear her say anything to Mr. Borden?
A. I heard her ask him if had any mail for her. I heard her telling her father very slowly that her mother got a note, that Mrs. Borden had a note that morning, and had gone out.
Q. You heard her telling that very slowly?
A. Yes Sir, to her father.
Q. Had got a note?" (20)

But during cross-examination, Adams gets Bridget to admit that Lizzie didn't speak more slowly about the note.
"Q. Everything she said, she said very slowly?
A. Ordinarily slow.
Q. Do you mean I should understand when she spoke about the letter or note, that Mrs. Borden had got, she spoke more slowly than she did the rest of it?
A. No Sir, just the same." (79)

[nbcatlover]

Perhaps the answer is something simple. Schools in the 19th century emphasized elocution with its emphasis on modulation and articulation, stressing all the syllables of the words, not slurring speech.

I remember references to Lizzie priding herself on being a cultivated girl. She aspired to a hirer social circle.

To the immigrant Bridget, Lizzie's ordinary speech probably seemed inordinately slow (and probably somewhat phoney). Bridget may have seen this pattern of speech as not the result of education, but as a reflection of classism, separating the haves from the have nots. The Kelly girl who Bridget spoke with over the fence may have reflected the rapid speech to which Bridget was accustomed.

Textbooks
The links below will lead you to books that are part of extremely useful 19th Century Schoolbooks: A Demonstration Project by the Digital Research Library, University Library System, University of Pittsburgh.
The National Reader: A Selection of Easy Lessons, John Pierpont,1835.
McGuffey's new sixth eclectic reader : exercises in rhetorical reading, with introductory rules and examples by Wm. H. McGuffey, 1857.
The Progressive Pictorial Primer, by an Eminent Practical Teacher,1857.
The Progressive Third Reader, for Public and Private Schools : Containing the Elementary Principles of Elocution, by Salem Town and Nelson M. Holbrook, c1857. Date of the edition available at the site is clearly later than the date assigned as the text includes Lincoln's Second Inaugural Address.)
Osgood's Progressive Fifth reader : Embracing a System of Instruction in the Principles of Elocution, and Selections for Reading and Speaking from the Best English and American authors, Lucius Osgood, 1858.


The texts listed below are part of the wonderful Making of America Collection at Cornell and MOA at the University of Michigan.
Advertisements for Elocution Books, Rhetorics, and Readers--Backmatter of 1851 edition of Tocqueville's American Institutions and Their Influence (p. 38)
Review published in The United States Democratic Review, January 1858, of American Eloquence. A Collection of Speeches and Addresses by the most eminent Orators of America; with Biographical Sketches and Illustrative Notes
Review published in The North American Review, April 1858 of American Eloquence

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For additional information on children's books and reading, see:
19th Century Schoolbooks: A Demonstration Project by the Digital Research Library, University of Pittsburgh.
History of Children's Literature, by Kay E. Vandergrift
World of the Child, An Exhibition at the Hugh M. Morris Library University of Delaware Library
Nineteenth Century Children & What They Read,
Children & Media: History of Children's Books an Other Media

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Oratory in 19th Century America Rhetoric books and Schoolbooks The Influence of The Columbian Orator An Archive of Speeches
Responses to Orators and Orations The Debate over Rhetoric and Reform Classroom Projects Project Home Page

from
http://www.assumption.edu/ahc/rhetoric/ ... books.html

[nbcatlover]

duplicate posting

[nbcatlover]

From
http://digital.library.upenn.edu/women/ ... organ.html

"The Art of Elocution." by Miss Anna Morgan.
Publication: Eagle, Mary Kavanaugh Oldham, ed. The Congress of Women: Held in the Woman's Building, World's Columbian Exposition, Chicago, U. S. A., 1893. Chicago, Ill: Monarch Book Company, 1894. pp. 597-599.

Here's another interesting link. Perhaps Lizzie had the opportunity to hear Anna Morgan speak when she attended the Columbian Exposition in 1893.

Anna Morgan stresses elocution as a tool for progress for the role of women in public affairs

[Allen]

If this were Lizzie's customany style of speech, wouldn't Bridget be accustomed to hearing it by that point? Would she have mentioned it if Lizzie always spoke in this manner?

[diana]

At the end of Bridget's first day of testimony at the Preliminary Hearing, Knowlton is observed in the public waiting room of the courthouse showing Bridget some words on a piece of paper.

The next morning when Adams begins his cross-examination of Bridget, he asks her if what was on the D.A.'s piece of paper had anything to do with her testimony regarding the 'groan', the 'note', the 'laugh', or "anything about her saying words slowly". (Preliminary Hearing 48+)

I've always taken this as an attempt to diffuse the more negative points in Bridget's testimony by suggesting she may have been overly coached by the prosecution. However it's interesting to see that the defense appears to weigh Bridget's intimation that Lizzie spoke in an oddly slow manner right up there with the note, the laugh, and the groan.

[Allen]

Could she have been talking slowly due to being slightly in shock? Like a person who has done something they just can't believe?

[nbcatlover]

She was living more "among her own" at the time of the trial. Perhaps with awareness that there were people who were more than willing to see her as the murder, she was more sensitive to the upstairs-downstairs class distinctions.

And just because someone is used to something doesn't mean that it doesn't annoy them...most divorces are over the little things.

[Yooper]

I think Bridget was using the term "very slowly" with respect to Lizzie rather than in the broader sense of everyone else. There would be no need to categorize Lizzie's speech as ordinarily very slow with respect to the general population within the context of the line of questioning. Bridget meant Lizzie was speaking very slowly as compared to the way in which Lizzie ordinarily spoke.

My original interpretation was that Lizzie was trying to make sure she didn't trip herself up in a lie. If she had made up the note story, she wanted to be certain she didn't say too much or say the wrong thing. However, assuming Lizzie was guilty of Abby's murder, imagine having to face Andrew, the one absolute authority figure in Lizzie's life, and explain to him where his wife was after having killed her. That might slow anyone down a bit! If she pulled that off, she could probably feel confident in facing down a courtroom.

[Kat]

If I recall correctly, Lizzie said she did not speak to Andrew in the dining room at all.

And Bridget did not know if John Morse was returning to dinner - she said when Morse was asked by Andrew as Morse was leaving, she did not hear Morse's answer.

[I don't mean to go off topic- just catching up here is all. Thanks.]

[Susan]

You are correct, Kat. Lizzie starts out saying that she spoke to Andrew in the sitting room, but, the line of questioning ends where she doesn't sound quite so sure anymore. Its on page 84 of her Inquest, sorry, I'd type it out, but am on a time constraint at the moment. Perhaps later.

[Allen]

I noticed that on page 84 of the inquest testimony, Lizzie also states she saw her father take his shoes off. But we can see from the pictures his shoes were still on. According to Hiram Harrington, Lizzie claimed to have helped Andrew take off his shoes to put on his slippers. I've always found that very curious. She does seem to waver about speaking to Andrew in the dining room. Could it have anything to do with how close it would put Bridget to the conversation?

[nbcatlover]

I've always wondered about the shoes and the slippers issue.

Suppose what Lizzie said about slippers was true, would Andrew answer the front door in his slippers if someone knocked while Lizzie was in the barn? Or was he so proper that he would replace his shoes before he let someone in his home?

[Kat]

I noticed that on page 84 of the inquest testimony, Lizzie also states she saw her father take his shoes off. But we can see from the pictures his shoes were still on.

Hmmm... you are correct- in fact Lizzie says it twice in her inquest testimony.
I'd think he did take off his shoes. But as Cynthia implies, maybe he had reason to put them on again?

Some have reasoned that the boots he was found in were slippers because they *slipped on* with inset elastic, I think?
And they look pretty old and scuffed up in the original crime scene photo.
It's been thought that Andrew wore those boots he was found in, on the street, but I've thought, since seeing the picture, that the women would never let him go downtown in those old shoes. Any ideas if Andrew could get away with wearing those downtown?
And if he did- Didn't men get a shoeshine when they got their haircut - which some people think he was barbered that morning?