Just how much of tight wad were they?

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:53 pm

I was reading an article, "The Borden Murder Mystery" (found it online), and it said,

"Every penney was counted in the Borden household. A leg of lamb first cooked on the Saturday before the murder was on the table in a disgused form five days later."

Wouldn't the meat have been spoiled by then? I mean, it was a hot summer, and they didn't refridgeration like we do now.

So, I have to wonder, just how tight were they to be eating five day old meat.

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:54 pm

I'm not that knowledgable in their eating habits but I heard that Andrew, although wealthy, refused to have a phone, indoor toilets, and sat in the dark to save on kerosene. It look's to me like he was a tight wad. Penny wise but pound foolish. I still believe that Andrew's tightness is what brought about the killings.

Eating re-warmed old meat is dangerous. My attitude is, "serve it tonight and maybe have the left-overs tomorrow but that is it. Throw it out." The "waste not want not" attitude so common a century ago can be a two-edged sword if one is not careful. You can't spend money in the grave so why not enjoy it now?

-1bigsteve (o:

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:25 pm

Emma took exception to the perception that her father was cheap when it came to food. In her 1913 interview with the Boston Post she had this to say:

"Some unkind persons have spread the report that my father, despite his great wealth, was niggardly and that he refused to even give us sufficient to eat. That is a wicked lie. He was a plain-mannered man, but his table was always laden with the best that the market could afford."

nbcatlover · Post by **nbcatlover** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:21 pm

Refrigeration was just coming into its own. Meat before refrigeration was frequently corned or smoked to preserve the meat. Seasonings for jerking and lots and lots of salt were used.

Even today, local fisherman still salt their cod to use it over a long period.

During my childhood, sides of beef were frequently hung in a cool, humid area to allow them to for a period of 3-4 weeks before cooking. It frequently had a somewhat slimy, greenish exterior film, but this was the best way to get prime meat, and by today's standards, it is considered too expensive to do.

Even today, prosciutto (in Portuguese, presunta--a cured "raw" ham) can be found hanging from the ceilings to purchase in some small ethnic establishments.

Cerviche is raw seafood cured in a marinade of lemon or lime juice.

People used to have a healthy respect for what aging and a little mold could do to improve food.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:51 am

1bigsteve @ Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:54 pm wrote:I'm not that knowledgable in their eating habits but I heard that Andrew, although wealthy, refused to have a phone, indoor toilets, and sat in the dark to save on kerosene. It look's to me like he was a tight wad. Penny wise but pound foolish. I still believe that Andrew's tightness is what brought about the killings.

Eating re-warmed old meat is dangerous. My attitude is, "serve it tonight and maybe have the left-overs tomorrow but that is it. Throw it out." The "waste not want not" attitude so common a century ago can be a two-edged sword if one is not careful. You can't spend money in the grave so why not enjoy it now?

-1bigsteve (o:

I have to say- I'm chuckling over your post. I never read so many cliches in one post before!

But to call attention to the "penny wise but pound foolish"- I hope you don't mind:
That one means pinching the pennies in the little things but spending on big ticket items- like not paying the paper boy but buying an airplane- doesn't it?

Yooper · Post by **Yooper** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:42 am

I have always interpreted "penny wise but pound foolish" to mean false economy, with "pound" meaning either a measure of weight or as a British monetary measure. Purchasing something at a rate of $10.00 for 10 ounces rather than $12.00 for 16 ounces is "penny wise" in terms of cash outlay (ten rather than twelve dollars), but "pound foolish" in terms of cost per ounce (a dollar rather than seventy-five cents).

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:26 am

I think Yooper has it nailed. "Penny wise but pound foolish" is a British phrase, "pound" referring to the British Pound (money).

"Penny wise" would be shopping around for a four-pack of paper towels and getting the cheapest at $4.00, $1.00 a roll. You saved a few "pennies" by buying the cheapest four-pack in the store. However, You could have saved even more money in the long run by buying a gazillion rolls in a pack as big as a compact car at Costco by spending more money (pounds) now but maybe the cost per roll is only $.35.

My Aunt had a bad habit of looking all over town for the cheapest price on a certain doo-dad she wanted. She would manage to find it and save 2 cents but she wore out a 1/2" of shoe leather and burned up a half tank of gas to save that 2 cents. Now that is "penny wise but pound foolish." My moto is go ahead and spend the 2 cents and keep your shoe leather, time and gas and get back with your life and move on. Time is money.

-1bigsteve (o:

Yooper · Post by **Yooper** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:35 am

I had a father-in-law much like your aunt, Steve. He would drive clear across town to save a penny per gallon on gasoline, then proclaim to all and sundry how clever he was!

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:32 pm

Kat @ Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:51 am wrote:
I have to say- I'm chuckling over your post. I never read so many cliches in one post before!
But to call attention to the "penny wise but pound foolish"- I hope you don't mind:
That one means pinching the pennies in the little things but spending on big ticket items- like not paying the paper boy but buying an airplane- doesn't it?

Most of the definitions I've found for this phrase coincide with Kat's definition.

Meaning:
Someone who is penny wise, pound foolish can be very careful or mean with small amounts of money, yet wasteful and extravagant with large sums.

http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/i ... olish.html

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:21 pm

That is the "exact" definition of the term "penny wise, pound foolish" but it is often used outside of it's exact definition. If you check with answers.com it will say that "The phrase is occasionally used for being very careful about unimportant matters and careless about important ones. It was used in this way by Joseph Addison in The Spectator (1712): "A woman who will give up herself to a man in marriage where there is the least Room for such an apprehension... may very properly be accused... of being penny wise and pound foolish.""

That is the meaning I was applying to Andrew. He was tight with his money but he was also careful about unimportant things, like saving on kerosene and re-warming the same piece of meat several times, while being careless with important things like making sure his daughters are happy, especially if one of them owned a hatchet.

The phrase is sometimes used in stock trading to describe a trader who is so concerned about spending a few dollars (pennies) on a commission that he fails to take advantage of that trade that would have made him mega-bucks (pounds). Don't laugh. Been there, done that.

There is also a off-version in real estate, "Don't trip over pennies on your way to making dollars."

There are probably a few other versions of that phrase I'm not aware of. That phrase is also related to "meaness" and "stupidity."

-1bigsteve (o:

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:45 pm

nbcatlover @ Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:21 pm wrote:Refrigeration was just coming into its own. Meat before refrigeration was frequently corned or smoked to preserve the meat. Seasonings for jerking and lots and lots of salt were used.

Even today, local fisherman still salt their cod to use it over a long period.

During my childhood, sides of beef were frequently hung in a cool, humid area to allow them to for a period of 3-4 weeks before cooking. It frequently had a somewhat slimy, greenish exterior film, but this was the best way to get prime meat, and by today's standards, it is considered too expensive to do.

Even today, prosciutto (in Portuguese, presunta--a cured "raw" ham) can be found hanging from the ceilings to purchase in some small ethnic establishments.

Cerviche is raw seafood cured in a marinade of lemon or lime juice.

People used to have a healthy respect for what aging and a little mold could do to improve food.

Stop! Stop! You're making me drool!

I always wanted to build a smoke house and smoke my own deer and boar meat. My only problem was that I just couldn't pull the trigger. I had the gun in my hands but I just couldn't shoot. So I started bringing a camera out into the woods and I was happy.

Some great white hunter I'd be. Now, if I were starving...

There is a funny scene in Gunsmoke where Doc is carving up an old moldy ham that everyone is enjoying, except Miss Kitty. The look on her face...

-1bigsteve (o: