A good hiding place?

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:02 pm

Emma had been in Fairhaven for about two weeks at the time of the murders. The Brownell's stated that it was her intent to spend the summer there. So she must have brought considerable luggage

When she returned at about 6pm on the 4th, I would assume some, if not all, the luggage returned with her.

Would not that be a great hiding place? A quick opening of one of the trunks and placing a dress and hatchet inside. Would the police even think of examining Emma's trunk since she just returned from Fairhaven? There's nothing that I know of that they did.

Now to find out if she returned with a trunk or some luggage.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:22 pm

Aha, answering my own question. Emma did return with a trunk. From the Trial, page 549, Assistant City Marshal Fleet's testimony:

"Q. And do you know whether you saw anybody else pass in or out that door, the front door?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who?
A. I think Miss Emma Borden, together with a trunk.
Q. That is when she arrived at night?
A. Yes."

Could this be where that stained dress that Lizzie burned on Sunday have been hidden? Of course this would involve Emma's collusion.

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:33 am

Darned good theory Harry! And It sure would work! The house being so compact downstairs and so much going on in the rooms, I bet that trunk went right upstairs right away, maybe to outside the dress closet on the second floor landing to await unpacking. After it was emptied out, it probably went to the third floor to one of the storage rooms, but that may have been a day or two later. Then that night when Lizzie went down the front stairs the second time to the cellar, she could have opened the trunk, removed what was inside and hustled down to the cellar with the dress and weapon for concealment elsewhere.All kinds of grisly things get stowed in trunks in the best detective mysteries.

stuartwsa · Post by **stuartwsa** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:28 am

That's true, Shelley...ask Winnie Ruth Judd!

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:18 pm

That would be a most excellent hiding place. Emma might not have even been aware that the dress had been stowed inside. Lizzie could have removed it before Emma began to unpack. My only questions are would Lizzie have had the opportunity to slip the dress inside without being noticed by one of the people in the house? How well had they searched the house before Emma arrived with the trunk?

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:43 pm

I think that you are right Harry. What a great place to hide a bloody dress and hatchet!! In Emma's luggage! The police would have never thought to look there. By the time they left, Lizzie could have burned the dress without a thought.

kfactor · Post by **kfactor** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:35 pm

Very plausible theory, Harry. If only Lizzie and Emma were still alive to ask...

sguthmann · Post by **sguthmann** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:16 am

bravo harry! a very good theory, and quite plausible.

it also strikes a chord in me as I recall that 1913 interview Emma did with Edwin Maguire of the Boston Sunday Post and that statement that I have always found somewhat odd:

...Here is the strongest thing that has convinced me of Lizzie's innocence. The authorities never found the axe or whatever implement it was that figured in the killing...

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:10 am

That is a unique view! Thanks for food for thought!

Do you think Emma's stuff would get bloody or messed up in the trunk and create more stuff to burn?
Maybe a dress and weapon etc. would have to be wrapped up in something- maybe a raincoat?

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:32 am

Emma returned about 6pm some 7 hours after Andrew's murder. Would not the blood have dried sufficiently not to stain? Yes, it could also be wrapped but an odd package in her trunk would have been noticed if the trunk was opened.

I was thinking more of the dress than the hatchet. A dress folded a certain way to hide any stains might be taken as simply one of Emma's dresses. They would have to remove it from the trunk and examine it. We don't know if the police even opened the trunk Emma returned with.

All this is pure speculation but that dress had to be somewhere. It certainly could not have been on the shelf in the kitchen closet when the police searched the house.

Yooper · Post by **Yooper** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:18 am

Emma's trunk would be a very good place to hide a dress. Unless the police had reason to suspect a member of the household, why would they give the house much more than a cursory inspection at first? They may not have even thought to search Emma's trunk, and even if they had, there would be little reason to do so. I doubt that the police would be able to determine the owner of a given dress belonging to either Lizzie or Emma without asking, so anything found in Emma's trunk would be assumed to belong to Emma.

I agree, the dress had to be somewhere, it couldn't be made to disappear and reappear. It would be more likely overlooked if it was "hidden" where it would normally be kept, in a closet or in a trunk.

This does indeed imply Emma's collusion at some point, probably early on. Emma's apparent lack of concern at the time the dress was burned may be an indicator. Even at Alice Russel's prompting, Emma showed little concern.

stuartwsa · Post by **stuartwsa** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:59 am

Whoops! ...nevermind...

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:31 pm

Didn't alot of those old steamer trunks have a false bottom; a secret compartment under a false bottom? Sounds like it would have been a very good hiding place, in plain sight, and would the police bother checking something that just came in the house and wasn't there during the murders. Great idea, Harry.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:57 am

Well we have heard of plenty of citizens writing in to the police about raincoats- and the girls were asked in testimony about raincoats- at least I think Emma was. So maybe a bloodstained outfit was wrapped in a raincoat in the trunk.
I mean- maybe that's why we have these slicker questions being handed down to us. . .
So it's under Lizzie on the lounge in her bedroom until Emma arrives home- and then sneaked into Emma's trunk- sounds good. . . .
Why not the hatchet?

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:22 am

Oh, I don't exclude the hatchet. It's just that my original thoughts came from Lizzie taking the dress from the closet and burning it. I was looking for its hiding place. The burning was being discussed in another thread which I did not want to go O/T on.

The hatchet could have been wiped fairly clean and secreted beneath the clothes in the trunk. Again, I think the blood would have been dry after so many hours after the murders.

I think the police would have been very respectful toward Emma and not searched her belongings that she returned with.

I can easily see collusion on Emma's part. Her father and step-mother are both dead and all that's left of her immediate family is Lizzie. That's the reality of the situation. Could she stand losing her sister as well, the Lizzie that she vowed to look after? She would certainly be aware of the consequences of Lizzie being found guilty.

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:22 pm

I think that is a good theory. Who would think of checking Emma's luggage. The police weren't looking at Emma as a suspect, so why bother looking in the luggage.