I was wondering (based on reading some from a book called *Women Who Kill*)... was Lizzie's grand tour basically a husband seeking mission, or was it so Lizzie could see the world before resigning herself to spinsterhood?
Many prominent families (such as the Vanderbilts) sent a daughter off with the hopes that she would find a prize husband...wealthy and maybe even titled. Do you think the Bordens had such hopes? And was Emma not *prize husband* worthy?
If it was so that Lizzie could see the world... well, that still seems uncharacteristically generous from a cheapskate father (sorry Andrew)... even if Lizzie contributed to the trip (and I always wonder, with Andrews keen business sense, how he let Lizzie spend money on a frivolity like a grand tour). And...if so... why not Emma? Didn't she merit a grand tour as well?
I have always thought that Andrew sent her on the cruise, tour thing to keep her quiet-- happy. Think she was complaining about not living on the hill and living below their means, so he sent her on that tour to appease her.
Just my guess.
Suicide is painless It brings on many changes and I will take my leave when I please.
I think Andrew sent Lizzie so Abbie could get a much needed break from
Lizzie. Otherwise I don't see Andrew spending the money to send Lizzie on that trip. We all know how frugal Andrew was. Andrew just wanted to
save Abbie from a nervous break down from Lizzie's attitude and antics
I was looking at this thread and thinking maybe that Andrew had sent Emma to the seminary as a gift and then gave Lizzie the gift of the Grand Tour, since she was not as studious as her sister. just a little thought that popped into my little head! OK they were many years apart, but both of these were quite extraordinary. Maybe Lizzie at that point wasn't jealous of Mrs. Borden but of Emma.
~B
"It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." ~ Albus Dumbledore
I've kind of thought that too- that Emma was given the *gift* of a further education and Lizzie's gift later on would be that trip to Europe. I wonder if it works out similar in cost?
It's possible it was postponed, too- anyone know what was happening in Europe that might postpone a trip for the Fall River ladies until 1890?
I can't think of anything happening in Europe during that time which would prevent an earlier trip by the Fall River ladies. The Eiffel Tower was brand new, built in 1889.
To do is to be. ~Socrates
To be is to do. ~Kant
Do be do be do. ~Sinatra
I figured it was a kind of "keeping up with the Joneses" type of thing. Lizzie went with a group of women from the Cen Cong Church. Perhaps begging from Andrew: "Everyone is going!"
At 30 and still unmarried, perhaps she used the argument she was unlikely to get married & this would be in lieu of a dowry & paying for a wedding celebration.
And yes, she had also never put them thru the cost of any higher education.
I doubt it was a husband hunting mission...that kind of thing seems to be for "society" daughters, which Lizzie was not...the kind of people who had contacts in Europe who could arrange for introductions to nobility.
“I am innocent. I leave it to my counsel to speak for me.”
—Lizzie A. Borden, June 20, 1893
Reading the August issue of The Hatchet, Emma went to Wheaton beginning in 1867, some 23 years before Lizzie's trip to Europe. It's hard for me to associate the two events.
It's been speculated that it was Lizzie's 30th birthday gift. Kinda expensive gift but who knows.
Perhaps Emma received some other gift such as stock. Not so far fetched as it sounds. I remember reading how Abbey's family thought Abbey had received stock from Andrew as a Christmas present. How romantic.
I know I ask perfection of a quite imperfect world
And fool enough to think that's what I'll find
Harry @ Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:46 am wrote:Reading the August issue of The Hatchet, Emma went to Wheaton beginning in 1867, some 23 years before Lizzie's trip to Europe. It's hard for me to associate the two events.
It's been speculated that it was Lizzie's 30th birthday gift. Kinda expensive gift but who knows.
Perhaps Emma received some other gift such as stock. Not so far fetched as it sounds. I remember reading how Abbey's family thought Abbey had received stock from Andrew as a Christmas present. How romantic.
Nothing quite like a few shares of Standard Oil to show you care! After all, there weren't many power tools around back then...
Didn't Lizzie have a little money of her own from her mother's legacy? I too got the impression that all the girls at church were going, they had a chaperone and Lizzie wanted to bust loose a little and go with them. Turning 30 is tough! It doesn't seem that Lizzie was too fond of academic life, maybe Andrew figured this was in lieu of school, and a one-time thing. I am trying to recall where I read she ran out of money while in Europe and had to wire Andrew for more. Also, were't the sealskin sacques a 30th birthday gift? Husband hunting? Oh, I doubt it, although many American heiresses haunted Europe hoping to find a titled but impoverished nobleman who could give them a title in return for a purse full of loot to refurbish the ancient family manse! There is a great book called How to Marry an English Lord about this sort of thing.
It is hard to see Lizzie on a husband finding mission... tee hee.
I hadn't considered that the grand tour may have killed 2 birds with one stone -- gotten Lizzie off their exasperated hands for a while and allowed her to see the world.
For me, 30 was no big deal...but 40 broke my heart!
It's quite possible that when the group was put together at the Church for the younger ladies to go to Europe, Lizzie and Emma both had equal opportunity to go and Emma declined. Perhaps she decided she was too old for the crowd and Lizzie, being ten years closer to their age, didn't feel as awkward about it. Perhaps Emma didn't want to go because she didn't want to be away from home. Either way, we can't assume that Emma never had the opportunity to go.
It could also be that the girls who were going on the trip were friendly with Lizzie and didn't have much to do with Emma. It could also be that Emma felt resentful that Lizzie was going without her. But it was the same year that Emma and Lizzie swapped rooms, which always seemed curious to me.
One can only imagine the conversations in the Borden house surrounding the two decisions to a) swap rooms with Emma and b) send Lizzie on the tour while Emma stayed behind.
A book shall be an axe for the frozen sea within us -- Franz Kafka
You may have a point about the church, Richard, I had never thought of that myself. What if Lizzie's trip was some sort of religious pilgrimage to visit the grand cathedrals of Europe? I imagine even if it was just a pleasure trip, it could still be seen as furthering one's education by studying the art, architecture and archaeology of the places one visited.
I looked through Lizzie's inquest testimony and she only refers to her trip as being "abroad", but, not what it was for. Do we have any reference that stated that Lizzie was on a "Grand Tour"? I know there was a newspaper article about Lizzie and the women she traveled with, was it noted there?
A thought occured to me about Lizzie and Emma switching bedrooms that I don't know if we've ever touched on before. What if the switch was for a simple reason such as that if Emma were as much as a homebody as we tend to think, she may have gone to bed much earlier than Lizzie did. Lizzie coming home later and traipsing through Emma's room at night may have woke her up. Could Emma then have suggested the switch just so she could catch her "Zzzzs"?
“Sometimes when we are generous in small, barely detectable ways it can change someone else's life forever.”-Margaret Cho comedienne
It was my understanding that Lizzie asked Emma to switch rooms as she had quite a number of souvenirs and prints from her big tour and nowhere to display them. The lady reporter who describes Lizzie's room says there were prints of great cathedrals on the wall. Clearly Lizzie liked her frivolous doodads, portieres, and furbelows and little feminine touches. Maybe Emma just humored her -it was easier that way. And Emma did not seem to be as enamored of frills and bric-a-brac and fine display.
The most information I've read on Lizzie's Europe trip was contained in the Boston Globe of August 6, 1892:
"... In May, 1890, with a party of friends she made a three months' tour of Europe, roaming over foreign cities, deriving her greatest pleasure and profit among the art galleries and studying the architecture of the continent under the chaperonage of Miss Cox of Taunton.
Miss Nellie Shove, Miss Anna, daughter of Col. Thomas Borden, both of Fall River, a Taunton young lady and
Lizzie Toured England
and the continent. They visited London, traversed Scotland, saw Paris and spent some time in Rome. Lizzie brought home a large collection of photographs of buildings and copies of works of the great masters. She was particularly fond of Raphael's Sistine Madonna, and brought home several large copies of it. She had pictures of St. Peter's at Rome and other great European cathedrals. She returned with a store of information, and being a descriptive conversationalist was able to reproduce scenes and incidents with such appreciable accuracy as to be exceedingly entertaining. ..."
I know I ask perfection of a quite imperfect world
And fool enough to think that's what I'll find
Thanks, Harry. It would be so cool if any of these momentos from Lizzie's first trip abroad lay gathering dust in the attic of Maplecroft waiting to be found. Weren't all the women in the group, outside of Lizzie, schoolteachers? I have to wonder if they were a wealth of knowledge for the areas they visited or was the trip, in a way, to brush up on their learnings?
“Sometimes when we are generous in small, barely detectable ways it can change someone else's life forever.”-Margaret Cho comedienne
"Lizzie sailed from Boston to Liverpool, England, aboard the S.S. Scythia on June 21, 1890. Lizzie was accompanied by the Misses Anna Howland Borden and her sister, Carrie Lindley Borden, Elizabeth Brayton,
Sarah Brayton, and Ellen M. Shove...Lizzie was away for nineteen weeks. Lizzie returned to Boston aboard the S.S. Scythia on Nov 1, 1890."
It looks like the women she travelled with were about her age or slightly younger. What's interesting is that the Central Congregational Church held a reception for the ladies on November 12 after they returned.
Lizzie was travelling in good company. Anna and her sister Carrie were granddaughters of Colonel Richard Borden. Elizabeth Brayton was the daughter of David Anthony Brayton. Miss Shove was also the daughter of a prominent Mill owner.
It looks like they were all in their mid-twenties to mid-thirties and all unmarried.
A book shall be an axe for the frozen sea within us -- Franz Kafka
The novel Lizzie by Evan Hunter has a very detailed fictional account of Lizzie's European tour. It takes up just about as much space in the novel as the affair of 1892. From the novel, you can get imagery of what the trip may have been like. But of course the dialogue and events are all nonsense.
All those descriptions of the things that Lizzie brought back with her from Europe? Do you suppose those things were in the house when the murders took place? Did Lizzie put them into storage? Did any of it make it with her to Maplecroft? Does any of the souvenirs from her European trip survive?
If you went up to Lizzie's room on the morning of August 4, 1892, would you find art prints on the walls? Or did she take them down by then?
And what did Andrew think of all that? I can't imagine him being impressed. Perhaps he ordered her to throw it out, or remove it from the walls. Perhaps....
A book shall be an axe for the frozen sea within us -- Franz Kafka
The lady reporter who wrote a very detailed description of Lizzie's room mentions the prints of Europe's great cathedrals on Lizzie's walls. Can anyone recall where The Sistine Madonna is mentioned? I am trying to sort out at present whether it was the Sistine Madonna or Madonna of the Chair, both by Raphael painted about the same period which was Lizzie's favorite. Madonna of the Chair was a round painting, extremely popular, and the Sistime Madonna had those darling fat cherubs at the bottom which were also wildly popular and still are. Madonna of the Chair I have seen in the Uffizzi in Florence, and the Sistine Madonna (probably painted for Pope Leo, is now in Germany). This is a topic of hot discussion at the moment so I would love to know the reference for which Lizzie liked.
That is weird! Harry and I were talking about the Madonna picture today.
In Rebello, page 11 it says.
From the Boston Evening Recorder of JUne 5, 1893, p.4:
"She was particularly found of Raphel's 'Sistene Madona' and brought home several large copies of it." [sic- all thru this quote]
Yes, I have been chatting Len up about it and blogged about it a few days ago. The one in Lizzie's room NOW is Madonna della Sedilia, or Madonna of the chair. It was very popular and was painted by Raphael about the same time as the Sistine Madonna. (a couple of years earlier). He admitted the one in Lizzie's room is not the Sistine madonna. If I can find a nice copy, we may change it. My interest in pursuing this is trying to find out which countries Lizzie visited on her Grand Tour. The Madonna of the Chair is in Florence- I have seen it there at the Uffizzi,- the Sistine Madonna is in Germany- so the thought hit me that maybe Lizzie and "the girls" got to Germany also. Len does have the Sistine Madonna in his book on page 11, as you have pointed out. I suspect it was so popular because of the adorable 2 angels at the bottom which are still hugely popular and so whimsical. Could they be Lizzie and Emma looking up at heaven at their real mother holding Alice Esther?
I remember being blown away when I discovered this was the picture of the two angels I'd had for YEARS. It's now in my kitchen...you can barely make it out on the thread I just posted in the Privy in my kitchen AFTER picture.
One of the many cool tidbits all tied into this case...
“I am innocent. I leave it to my counsel to speak for me.”
—Lizzie A. Borden, June 20, 1893
I have the same picture in my house of the two cherubs for years, though I knew they were part of a larger painting. I was intrigued when I found out that it was part of one of Lizzie's favorite paintings. I recall the two cherubs were used as the logo for a clothing store chain called Fiorellos if I remember correctly; the cherubs had sunglasses on.
“Sometimes when we are generous in small, barely detectable ways it can change someone else's life forever.”-Margaret Cho comedienne
Tina-Kate @ Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:30 pm wrote:I remember being blown away when I discovered this was the picture of the two angels I'd had for YEARS. It's now in my kitchen...you can barely make it out on the thread I just posted in the Privy in my kitchen AFTER picture.
One of the many cool tidbits all tied into this case...
