Greetings and Happy New Year to Forum Members

chuckciao · Post by **chuckciao** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:40 pm

Very happy to be a new member of your group and hope to learn a great deal more about the Borden Case. From the posts that I have already read, I can see that there are some very well informed forum members. Through the Public Library InterLibrary Loan program, I have been able to read most of the books that have been written on the Borden Case including Leonard Rebello's excellent resource on the case, the full trial transcript, preliminary hearing transcript, Lizzie's Inquest Testimony, & witness statements. At this point, I feel that Lizzie was guilty of the murders but like many, am puzzled by many circumstances that create doubt or questions as to her guilt.
Perhaps, I can start by asking if modern forensic sciences have ever been used to try to shed new light on certain aspects of the case. For example, has there been any attempt to unearth the skulls and subject them to further analysis? Modern Forensic Sciences were recently used in the Lindburgh Case. In 2005, a wood analyst compared the ladder used in the kidnapping to wood in the Hauptmann House which still exists.
He was able to find an absolute match which leaves little doubt as to Hauptmann's guilt or at least his participation in the crime.

Smudgeman · Post by **Smudgeman** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:22 pm

Hi and welcome!
I am certainly no expert on this case, but I think there is no forensic evidence to examine? They did not do any blood analysis back then, so it would be a painstaking process of getting all the deceased DNA, and comparing them to what? All the buried clothes surely would be nearly dust by now I am guessing, and I am not sure where the pieces of cut out blood stained carpet are , or the old sofa are now?

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:53 pm

Yes CHUCKCIAO. Welcome........

The "Let's Dig up the Bordens" has been hashed over many times on this site and on MONDO LIZZIE BORDEN. (http://lizzieandrewborden.com/MondoLizzie/) I for one would be against such actions. Nothing but curiosity could come from it. (or perhaps a book or two) I for one have respect for the dead, whether they died yesterday or 2000 years ago. The good doctor in the site below, James Starr, has not. After all, his profit comes from studying cadavers, corpses and other such remains......

http://lizzieandrewborden.com/MondoLizz ... from-1992/

Don · Post by **Don** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:18 pm

Happy new year and welcome to the Lizzie Borden forum.

shakiboo · Post by **shakiboo** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:05 pm

If they could possibly learn anything that would solve the case, then I'd think Abbie and Andrew wouldn't mind. But it's too late for that now, let them rest in peace.

Bob Gutowski · Post by **Bob Gutowski** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:19 pm

A very happy 2008 to all Bordenians, novices and old farts alike!

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:41 pm

Oh Bob! Turning 50 doesn't make you an old fart!

At least I hope not... since I'm older

Hi Chuckciao!
I have a question- really- does your Library interlibrary loan a reference work like Rebello's book? I didn't know a library did that. I didn't think reference books were allowed out of the building. I looked at one in another state and she wouldn't let it away from the area of the front desk.

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:37 am

I remember hearing a news clip or reading a write up in a magazine or paper back in the 1970s about some reporter who was lucky enough to have run into Garbo as she strolled down a country road in France, or somewhere.

It was her birthday and the reporter asked Garbo how she celebrating her birthday to which she responded, "Only a Fool Celebrates Getting Old."

For ever the comforting pessimist, I have adopted that dubious axiom and have used it many times when friends, after being warned not to remind me of my birth date, wish me a happy birthday.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:55 am

Being a book person, I was hoping you might make things clear to me as to whether Len's book is considered Reference or not.

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:41 am

One would only make things more difficult if he or she knows little about the Borden case and begins by reading "Lizzie Borden Past and Present."

It is not a casual read especially not for the first timer or should it be the first book in studying the case. (though it is the overall, most concise, and unabridged book ever written on the Borden murders, without equal.)

*******Leonard Rebello's narrative is the absolute Biographical reference handbook on the subject, without dispute.*******

But as I have mentioned many times before, and will again for any new subscribers to this site, a casual account of the crime should be read first to give the reader a panoramic over veiw and approach to the actual crime, events and time lines, etc. The overview of a short narrative on the crime is important.

That being said let me list a set of book as good starts.

FORTY WHACKS by David Kent
GOODBYE LIZZIE BORDEN by Robert Sullivan
LIZZIE BORDEN THE UNTOLD STORY by Edward Radin
THE FALL RIVER TRAGEDY BY Edwin Porter

and to a lesser extent:
LIZZIE by Frank Spiering

And, not to leave out Rick Geary's little comic paperback THE BORDEN TRAGEDY which can make a great first read. A little over 30 pages long it is written in comic book style but Geary does a wonderful job of telling the story of the murders.

Once one or two of these narratives have been exhausted, I would move onto the transcripts of the case or the trial, such as Edmund Pearson's TRIAL OF LIZZIE BORDEN.

While reading, or after reading, one of these you can make reference to "Past and Present."

chuckciao · Post by **chuckciao** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:33 am

Kat @ Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:41 pm wrote:Oh Bob! Turning 50 doesn't make you an old fart!
At least I hope not... since I'm older

Hi Chuckciao!
I have a question- really- does your Library interlibrary loan a reference work like Rebello's book? I didn't know a library did that. I didn't think reference books were allowed out of the building. I looked at one in another state and she wouldn't let it away from the area of the front desk.

Yes Indeed. Although I was not aware that Rebello's Work was a reference book, my library was able to get it from a library in another state with no difficulty.

Angel · Post by **Angel** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:35 pm

mbhenty @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:37 am wrote:

I remember hearing a news clip or reading a write up in a magazine or paper back in the 1970s about some reporter who was lucky enough to have run into Garbo as she strolled down a country road in France, or somewhere.

It was her birthday and the reporter asked Garbo how she celebrating her birthday to which she responded, "Only a Fool Celebrates Getting Old."

For ever the comforting pessimist, I have adopted that dubious axiom and have used it many times when friends, after being warned not to remind me of my birth date, wish me a happy birthday.

Then, how about celebrating being alive? That certainly isn't foolish.

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:28 am

Well yes ANGEL.

Though my stance on birthdays may be bandaged with melancholia, every morning I open my eyes I look around the room then throw up my arms and shout out:

YEE-HAWWWW............... (then I go make a cup of tea and let the dog out.

)

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:46 am

Personally, I think the Mother should be celebrated and hailed as hero and fetted and wined and dined!

Thanks Chuckiao.
My downtown Library is very you-know-what about reference material. I have to go downtown to look at their stuff. Maybe it's because I'm no longer a member? (I've been annexed to another city.) Maybe someone misinformed me about reference works and I've been laboring under a misconception. I suppose I should request it and see what happens.

So where have you been all this time and found the time to read everything, as well?

chuckciao · Post by **chuckciao** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:16 am

It's called early and happy retirement after 35 years as a school counselor in various overseas schools. Have always loved to delve into true crime mysteries, especially those that remain unsolved or where their resolution is still in doubt. I enjoyed and learned a great deal being a member of the LindyKidnap Forum on Yahoo so decided to try your site after having read several of your excellent posts. Many of your members are extremely knowledgable about the case. Looking forward to learning more. Thanks for a great site

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:10 am

Wow, thanks! I'm impressed you come pretty prepared! That's always useful around here.

Nadzieja · Post by **Nadzieja** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:44 am

Welcome chuckciao!!!! and Happy New Year to everyone. This is an excellent forum with many knowledgeable people. I've been here for a year and learn something new all the time. I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Greetings and Happy New Year to Forum Members

Greetings and Happy New Year to Forum Members

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