Abby's Cat

Uozumi · Post by **Uozumi** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:47 am

I've read something before this about Abby's Cat being butchered in the basement. This site also passes on the same story.

http://www.curiouschapbooks.com/

Do you think Lizzie did this seeing as she was kind to the pigeons in the barn and donated a lot of money to an animal shelter after she died? Did this even actually happen? If it did, who would have done it? I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts.

P.S. Maybe Andrew did it because the cat food cost too much! Just kidding.

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:21 am

I don't think she did. I read somewhere that that was just a rumor that she killed Abbys cat. I think Andrew did kill some pigeons of Lizzies but I dont know why.

Yooper · Post by **Yooper** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:12 am

Lizzie's reported kindness to animals and servants after the murders could be some form of penance. I keep coming back to Lizzie and Emma calling Bridget "Maggie". It has been argued that this was common practice at the time, but that doesn't make it any more respectful. It was no more difficult to use the name "Bridget" than to use the name "Maggie", especially if everyone else in the household used her proper name. The insistence upon using the name "Maggie" is a form of disrespect, no matter how common the practice was.

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:35 pm

The first I read of Lizzie killing a cat in the basement of the house on Second Street was when 'little Abby Potter' (Abby's half-sister's daughter who was about 7 at the time of the murders) was interviewed and told her incredible story about Lizzie doing it while Li'l Abby was there because it was crying so much. It wasn't believable.

Abby Borden visited Li'l Abby and her mother (Bertha/'Bertie') a lot. I think Li'l Abby heard a lot of stories about how mean Lizzie was to Abby and maybe concocted this one on her own.

There's a story that may be true that Lizzie purchased some chloroform at a drug store she said to kill a cat. Many people think it was some euthenasia thing. I can't imagine a lady going into a store and giving that as the reason for wanting the chloroform. Unless she added on that, "It is in such misery, for its hind leg is broken," or something like that.

There's another one where she was going for a walk with some woman, a cat came upon them, and Lizzie took the cat by the tail and threw it as far as she could.

Although Lizzie was known to be kind to animals, she seemed to be more of a dog person than a cat person. The Bordens did have a cat at their Second Street home. It's in Bridget's testimony, I think. I don't see how she could have it in her to hurt a cat at all. But then again, I imagine she wasn't too fond of rats, either, and they are animals.

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:43 pm

Yooper @ Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:12 am wrote:Lizzie's reported kindness to animals and servants after the murders could be some form of penance. I keep coming back to Lizzie and Emma calling Bridget "Maggie". It has been argued that this was common practice at the time, but that doesn't make it any more respectful. It was no more difficult to use the name "Bridget" than to use the name "Maggie", especially if everyone else in the household used her proper name. The insistence upon using the name "Maggie" is a form of disrespect, no matter how common the practice was.

I don't think that Lizzes form of kindness after the murder was any form of kindness; she was always fond and good to animalsAs to calling Maggie the wrong name, don't think that was a big thing for them, Bridget was a servant and thats how the Bordens treated her, and she knew that.

Constantine · Post by **Constantine** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:28 pm

Pearson repeated the cat story in one of his collections. Though a staunch believer in Lizzie's guilt, he did not believe it. (So am I and neither do I.) Memory plays strange tricks on us (as anyone knows who has seen the same movie twice a few decades apart).

Yooper · Post by **Yooper** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:53 pm

snokkums @ Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:43 pm wrote:
Yooper @ Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:12 am wrote:Lizzie's reported kindness to animals and servants after the murders could be some form of penance. I keep coming back to Lizzie and Emma calling Bridget "Maggie". It has been argued that this was common practice at the time, but that doesn't make it any more respectful. It was no more difficult to use the name "Bridget" than to use the name "Maggie", especially if everyone else in the household used her proper name. The insistence upon using the name "Maggie" is a form of disrespect, no matter how common the practice was.
I don't think that Lizzes form of kindness after the murder was any form of kindness; she was always fond and good to animalsAs to calling Maggie the wrong name, don't think that was a big thing for them, Bridget was a servant and thats how the Bordens treated her, and she knew that.

It has nothing to do with what Bridget tolerated. It has everything to do with making her tolerate anything. The fact that Bridget said she didn't think anything of it makes it no less disrespectful for Lizzie and Emma to do it. Andrew and Abby called her by her proper name, according to testimony.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:31 am

How does Lizzie calling Bridget "Maggie" answer to the question of whether Lizzie ever killed a cat?

*Kindness to animals and servants?*
There are stories yes about these cats- and we can get to the sources if needed. Pearson is one- correct Constantine. Lil" Abbie is one as well, as Augusta says. Also, the local apothecary who had known Lizzie for a long time is the one who said she asked for chloroform for a cat- is that Stephen Brow?

Yooper · Post by **Yooper** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:52 am

Kat @ Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:31 am wrote:How does Lizzie calling Bridget "Maggie" answer to the question of whether Lizzie ever killed a cat? *Kindness to animals and servants?*
There are stories yes about these cats- and we can get to the sources if needed. Pearson is one- correct Constantine. Lil" Abbie is one as well, as Augusta says. Also, the local apothecary who had known Lizzie for a long time is the one who said she asked for chloroform for a cat- is that Stephen Brow?

It simply addresses the issue of mindset. If Lizzie was inconsiderate of servants prior to the murders, she might have gone out of her way to be kind to them afterward as a form of penance. If Lizzie also went out of her way to demonstrate a kindness to animals after the murders, it might indicate she was less inclined to kindness before the murders. That might increase the possibility for her killing Abby's cat.

It doesn't have to be penance, she didn't even need a guilty conscience to want to demonstrate kindness, or at least to appear to do so. Kindness to servants and animals is something which is demonstrable, it is observed, and may be talked about. It only means that Lizzie's reported kindness to animals after the murders does not necessarily indicate a kindness to animals before the murders. Her consideration of servants seemed to change after the murders, so why could her consideration of animals not change?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:57 pm

OK. It's also possible that Lizzie and Bridget did not get along, but that Lizzie may have got along with all the other servants past, present and future. Just not that one.
But, Bridget seems not to mind the name "Maggie" so I still don't know that anything is proven, but I get your meaning.
Therefore, to draw this out to conclusion, Lizzie might have disliked one cat and killed it- but never any other cat ever again.

Since she made sure that her dogs were buried well and paid for it-- as her father's daughter I'm not quite sure that was *penance* or *guilt*- but rather the way she did things. Just my opinion.

Yooper · Post by **Yooper** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:51 pm

I guess the only way to prove whether Lizzie specifically targeted Bridget for the name Maggie would be to find out if Lizzie was in the habit of calling all of her maids Maggie, both before and after Bridget. At least those not named Maggie by their parents. Bridget might not have minded the name Brunhilda either, but that's not a good reason to refer to her as that.

Basing the idea that Lizzie couldn't have killed Abby's cat on the fact that she buried her dogs doesn't quite wash. She may have disliked all cats or disliked no cats or anything in between. I just don't know if we can arrive at a conclusion based upon what we know about Lizzie and cats. The same may be said about Lizzie and her maids.

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:03 pm

It has been my experience that people who are domestic animal lovers are usually either a dog lover or a cat lover. Lizzie appeared to be a dog lover, therefore cats were not an animal she would naturally take to.

If the killing of Abby's cat story is true, and it is also true that Lizzie despised Abby, then Abby's cat was most likely 'loved' as much as Abby was, by Lizzie. If Lizzie actually killed Abby then she would not have had a problem killing Abby's cat.

Constantine · Post by **Constantine** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:07 pm

twinsrwe @ Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:03 pm wrote:It has been my experience that people who are domestic animal lovers are usually either a dog lover or a cat lover.

I'm sure there are many who, like myself, love both.

shakiboo · Post by **shakiboo** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:02 pm

I love both also, but even the ones I don't care for would never have to worry about me causing them harm. Even if I didn't like the animals owner, it wouldn't have to fear me. I just don't think that story is true, personally. I think the two groups can be split into people who like animals and people who don't. I think if you are an animal lover, it carries over to all animals, some more then others, but I can't see some one who loves animals deliberately being unkind to any animal.

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:59 pm

We are on the same page Yooper-on all accounts. Yes, I have known many people who loved dogs but did not like cats at all. A dog's love is unconditional, effusive, constant. Cats pick and choose, can be aloof, independent. Love on THEIR terms. Yes, there are exceptional cats- I was lucky enough to have two- brothers (Holmes and Watson) raised by hand from age 2 weeks who behaved like puppies. But in general, cats do what they want. I can see why Lizzie would prefer the warm, tail-wagging, and devoted love of a dog.

Of course, we can only make some speculations. I am sure Little Abbie's memory was highly-colored by the extremely negative opinions of her mother regarding Lizzie, to the point where she may have projected a child's grasp of the evil Lizzie could have stooped to regarding killing a cat.
There was a mean-looking and scary old man on my street and we kids always heard he killed cats and spread that all around for effect- turned out he was just an eccentric, lonely old guy who never killed anything. But kids like to have someone to fear and tell hair-raising tales about. His windows were always soaped at Halloween and kids were dared to go up on his porch. I suspect Lizzie suffered plenty of this sort of thing by snoopers who gawked at Maplecroft and tried to catch Lizzie "up to something" they could run home and make up stories about.

And it is very possible that Lizzie's lavish bequests to animal welfare late in life came not only from Helen Leighton's suggestions to take it up as a cause, but it may have been atonement for a great violent act. Funny how the mind can justify the most horrific actions, then mollify itself by doing great kindnesses as a way of canceling out the evil. Some "find" religion, turn into model prisoners and do-gooders and do a 180 degree turnaround. Once Lizzie had fortunes to spend, she could afford to be Lady Bountiful, gracious and kindly to her staff and helpless beasts and probably relished every minute of it. In time, she could have totally blotted out the crime in her own mind as if it never happened.

If Lizzie had slaughtered her parents, extreme kindness to animals and "underlings" such as servants would be rationalized by the brain as not only penance but a way to neutralize the unspeakable action. It is frightening how convicted killers can sleep peacefully behind bars, their twisted minds going into a self-preservation mode.

I find it particularly disturbing that Emma also called Bridget "Maggie". I have never seen a reference for calling an Irish domestic "Maggie", but plenty of people bring this up when speaking of the Borden case- I'd like to know where this comes from. I think it shows a calculated disregard for Bridget's feelings, and of course Bridget was not going to make waves- they were her employers of sorts. She was less than nothing on the scale of Victorian notions of worth. It was a horrible time to be an immigrant and poor- and the Irish in particular had a miserable time of it. Imagine someone deliberately calling you by another name day after day under the same roof with no place to go to escape it. There was no excuse for it and I find it a very disturbing fact in this case. I have always believed Emma to be a real "dark horse" in all of this-not merely the schoolmarmy, plain and make-no-fuss shadowy figure in the background. Emma was in the best position to make a difference in that household when her father remarried- and did not do so- in fact, I believe she undermined Abby from the first day and did all she could to influence Lizzie about the Whiteheads and Abby.

Venting anger on an animal is commonplace amongst those convicted of physical crimes. From pulling the wings off flies to poisoning a dog- it can be a dress rehearsal for more grisly deeds later on. If Lizzie did kill Abby's cat, it may have been a simple matter of transfering the hate for the owner to her possession. All animal abusers have some serious issues with human beings first.

Yooper · Post by **Yooper** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:44 am

I agree with your point about Emma Shelley, I think Lizzie was Emma's creation. Emma was the right age for Lizzie to look up to as a mother figure and maybe Emma was sly enough to want an ally in her animosity for Abby. Emma might have initiated a game of keep away with Lizzie as the object.

Maybe the disrespect for Bridget had something to do with the contempt for Abby. I have always found it odd that three grown women with no young children and no need to earn an income needed a maid at all. Maybe Abby insisted on having domestic help because she either didn't trust, or couldn't count on Lizzie and Emma. The reference to Bridget as Maggie makes her more of an object and less of a person, so maybe she was considered Abby's "crutch" by Lizzie and Emma.

Just another maneuver in the Gaslight Treatment! Killing Abby's cat would also fit that scenario very well.

nbcatlover · Post by **nbcatlover** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:35 am

I was trying to look up attitudes towards cats as pets in the Gilded Age, but I haven't found anything.

In early New England, cats were associated with witchcraft. Then they were acceptable as barn animals because they were rat-catchers.

While the early Egyptians held cats in high esteem, I don't think people thought much of them in the 1890s.

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:53 am

I have always wondered about Emma's leaving Lizzie in 1905. Suppose Lizzie finally realized that her hatred and actions toward Abby had been formed and fueled by her older sister. Lizzie, anxious for her sister's approval, may have murdered the hated stepmother thinking Emma would have been in sympathy with the deed.

Just suppose Lizzie told Emma to get out in 1905 after realizing that Emma had steadily poisoned her mind over many years regarding her stepmother to the point where she was compelled to take that desperate measure. Lizzie never spoke about why Emma left- and we only have that one statement Emma made about the "goings on" in Maplecroft. I have always thought it odd nothing specific was said like, "I can't abide the liquor and unsuitable people there on weekends". Also, Nance and her troupe could hardly have spent so very many days visiting at Maplecroft, Nance was constantly on the road with a production.
No, there's more here than we know- or probably ever will know. There is a key factor missing.

Yooper · Post by **Yooper** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:30 am

I think Emma was aware of Lizzie's guilt from the start. I also think Emma may have blamed herself to a degree if Lizzie was her creation. I remember something was mentioned in the interview Emma gave after leaving Maplecroft about being compelled to leave. I think it might have been Reverend Buck who suggested that Emma must leave for her own good, or something along those lines. Emma must have been aware that her leaving Lizzie would seem suspicious to a public already convinced of Lizzie's guilt. I expect she had invested a great deal of time and energy in covering for Lizzie, and it would have taken quite a jolt to get her to leave and not return. Fear for her own safety comes to mind if she didn't trust Lizzie completely, and who would know Lizzie better than Emma? Lizzie might have confronted Emma with the idea that Emma was just as responsible for the murders as Lizzie was.

If Emma needed to get away from the people Lizzie was entertaining at Maplecroft, why not buy a vacation cottage, or use the farm at Swansea? Why not suggest that Lizzie entertain her friends there as an alternative? There were too many options to believe Emma left because of Lizzie's friends. I think you're right Shelley, Emma could have come up with a better explanation for leaving.

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:40 am

Not to mention Emma had some spinster friends she visited before the murders. She did go back to stay with the Brownells again in Fairhaven. Yes, she could have trotted off to any number of places and could have easily afforded another house or summer home in Marion. I think Emma did not want to live alone-and found comfort staying with the Connors ladies up in New Market. I sure wish Lizzie's friends had been more forthcoming with some inside information- or that WALLS could talk! What we don't know must be staggering.

nbcatlover · Post by **nbcatlover** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:07 pm

Also, in Hoffman, there's a reference to a beautician, Titia (Tish) Thomas who's mentioned in a letter relating a story about a Jim Wilder being at the Borden house in 1890 when Lizzie killed a cat.

My understanding that this is mentioned in the Knowlton Papers (which I don't have) under the title OUIJA, which sounds like Knowlton felt it was a made-up story to me.

Has anyone done any research to see if the was a James or Jim Wilder in Fall River in 1890 (with a sister Susy)?

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:01 pm

Ah, the Ouija board. That appears as you say in the Knowlton Papers. It was a typewritten document (HK329 in Knowlton) page 339+. The part that Hoffman refers to is on page 343:

"Q. Did Lizzie have a cat?
A. Yes - yellow cat - departed - violent
Q. Who killed it?
A. She - axe
Q. Whose lap did it jump into?
A. Jim Wilder - July 7 - 90.
Q. Where did he live?
A. No. 2 Second street, Fall River
Q. Whom did he tell it to?
A. Susy Wilder - she told it to Tish Thomas - manicure - at Rosalie Butler's - Tremont street.
Q. What hotel?
A. Fall River House"

I don't have an 1890 City Directory but there is no entry for a James Wilder (no Wilder's at all) in the 1892 Directory.

I may be mistaken but I seem to remember someone saying they should question the fellow that delivered the milk (or was it the ice?), that he knew something about Lizzie and a cat.

There was also a story about Lizzie coming across a badly injured cat and nursing it back to health.

Must be getting old. Can't find the sources for either at the moment.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:24 pm

Found the reference to the delivery man. It is in Knowlton, page 241, (HK225). It was in a handwritten, unsigned letter to Knowlton dated June 14, 1893 (during the trial). In it's entirety it reads:

"Sir- Why do you not ascertain who the milkman was, who supplied the Bordens with milk for years. He said he knew for a fact that Miss Lizzie decapitated a kitten which belonged to her step-mother. If she would do that for spite, she might do worse."

I believe the milk was delivered from one of the Swansea farms.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:37 pm

Found the references to the injured cat that Lizzie tended to. It's in both Radin and de Mille.

Radin has this:

"On one occasion when the hired man at the Swansea farm was using a scythe, he failed to notice a cat in the tall grass and inflicted a severe gash. Lizzie, who was at the farm that day, treated the injury and then made daily trips from Fall River to change the dressings until the cut was healed."

Right now I could use Lizzie. I have a cat that needs some tender care.

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:12 pm

I thought of poor Blackie yesterday Harry. How is he doing? I found this cat in Oak Grove around 1 pm yesterday. He was nearly frozen to the tree and meowing plaintively. He jumped into my car and sat under the heater in the front seat. I made some calls, but it seemed nobody needed a cat and the Faxon Shelter had a bumper crop. So I called FR rescue and they were at the Borden house in 10 minutes. The kitten was sitting in the diningroom looking out the window like he owned the place. He got his shots today and will be neutered Monday and put in the adoption process. Wish I could have kept him myself.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:45 pm

Thank you for asking, Shelley. She's on a new eye medicine which alleviates any pain but I'm afraid she will eventually lose her sight in that eye. Luckily the other eye appears fine.

That cat in the cemetery is very pretty. Love the white paws. What a shame that he hasn't a home.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:33 am

The cat mentioned in the OUIJA as July 7, 1890- Lizzie was in Europe at that time.

Thanks for the transcription Har!

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:07 am

One reason LeeAnn could not keep the Oak Grove kitten was this little fellow in the photo above. Max lives in the Kelly house next door but spends all his time at the Bordens. I think it may have something to do with all the attention, catnip and warm bed. But Max was not amused by the new arrival- both are males and territorial. We have to check with guests and their allergies, but most visitors adore this little guy. I had just received this 1893 mourning dress in the mail, and we posed on the black sofa not realizing it was hard to see where one began and the other ended!

Tina-Kate · Post by **Tina-Kate** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:21 pm

Max is gorgeous! Check out those amber eyes!

(You're no slouch yourself, Shelley.)

Hehehehe...

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:53 pm

Max has one little white spot on his toe so that cancels out any negative black cat stuff. He is always the star in any photo and he seemed to love the swish swish of long crinolines and batted his paw at those leg o' mutton sleeves as if he thought there might be a mouse inside. Actually, they are so large a family of possums could take up residence.

shakiboo · Post by **shakiboo** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:40 pm

Great picture of you two! You look great in that dress, and Max is quite the good looking fella.

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:31 am

I used to sew all my period dresses-takes about 7 yards of fabric. Then I found a company called Recollections and they do such a great job, the last 4 dresses I have had them make for me. With the sales and coupons, it comes out just a little more than if I had to make them myself.
Max always has his tuxedo on and is ready for his close-up!
http://www.recollections.biz/

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:48 pm

Very nice photo of you and the kitty, Shelley! I think I got a peek at him a few times last we stayed. I wasn't formerly introduced tho.

Your dress is lovely.

About kitty-cats: Aren't there nice stories about Lizzie and a cat and also a dog? I recall one where a cat was accidentally scythed in a field and was nursed back to health by our Lizzie herself... and once her chauffeur ran into a dog and she collected it and took it to the vet and paid all the bills...anyone recall these or more?

Tina-Kate · Post by **Tina-Kate** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:54 pm

Kat @ Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:48 pm wrote:About kitty-cats: Aren't there nice stories about Lizzie and a cat and also a dog? I recall one where a cat was accidentally scythed in a field and was nursed back to health by our Lizzie herself... and once her chauffeur ran into a dog and she collected it and took it to the vet and paid all the bills...anyone recall these or more?

I was recently discussing positive Lizzie stories & was told the one re the run-over dog was in "Radin". Sorry, I don't have that book, but perhaps someone else here does?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:49 am

Yes you are correct- there is a story in Radin. It seems as if he talked to Mrs. Mary Brigham and she told him things? Does that seem familiar to anyone? I've not read Radin in a long time.

What other good stories were you discussing, TK?

Tina-Kate · Post by **Tina-Kate** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:39 am

Kat @ Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:49 am wrote:Yes you are correct- there is a story in Radin. It seems as if he talked to Mrs. Mary Brigham and she told him things? Does that seem familiar to anyone? I've not read Radin in a long time.

What other good stories were you discussing, TK?

O, the usual---Russell Lake's pleasant reminiscences in the Lizzie Borden Casebook (by Joyce Williams, et al)...how she always allowed him into her house, esp when neighborhood bullies were after him, etc etc.

...& that little boy she always remembered on his birthday...that one's kind of a mystery, as you wonder what their relationship was...

Her feeding of the birds & squirrels in her yard.

My friend was wondering if the dog story was made up. I myself think it sounds perfectly plausible & in character. I can easily imagine Lizzie being horrified her car accidently hit a dog & paying the vet bill herself.

BTW---Harry, I hope all goes well with Blackie! From experience, I know they do adjust to any loss of sight...tho you have to be considerate & try not to move the furniture around too much lest they get confused.

nbcatlover · Post by **nbcatlover** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:53 am

If Lizzie really loved her pigeons (and they are smarter than most people today credit) and Andrew wrung their necks in front of her...and then, Abby and Andrew ATE THEM in a delicious pigeon pie...

It might explain, at least, why Lizzie didn't dine with them anymore.

And if she felt powerless enough against Abby and Andrew, she might be provoked enough to retaliate on Abby's pet. That "Eye for an Eye" stuff dies hard.