I was reading on the website "Clews The Historic true crime Blog: Lizzie Borden . and found some very interesting statements. Thought they were funny. Here goes a few of them.
From the New York Times: It seems to me that Mizz Borden has been arrested on village gossip and nothing else. Think of the stigma on the life of this young, pround, intelligent woman!"
The reportes sided with Lizzie from the get -go. "Tahe law itself holds Lizzie Borden innocent," said The Baltimore Sun, "She has been most pitiably enmeshed by circumstances, and does not her case call for the kindest consideration on the part of everybody?"
The Lowell Times relayed that "the statistics of the crime show that poison in the usual weapon of the murderess. Occasionally frenizied women use revovers; but an edged tool is scarcely ever used by that sex."
Thus, Lizzie could not have butchered her parents. The Times went on:
"It not only required a fiend's heart, baut a giant's strength, and to believe that it could have been comitted by a physiccally weak woman, whose entire life has been one of refined influences, of Christian profession and work of filial devotionl, of modesty and self-abnegation, is to set aside as of no value all that experience and observation have taught us."
In a similar vien, The Fall River declared, to the nods of its reders, that-
"Cruelty and the shedding of blood for blood'ssake are a man's prerogative, or if they are ever found developed in a woman the cases are so rare that we may well afford to give Lizzie Borden the benefit of the doubt."
But not all readers agreed though. Some were even grumbling. The New Bedford Mercury waxed sacastic:
"Lizzie Borden is too well treated," comes a the cry from Fall River busybodies. "She is as comfortable as any prisoner could be."
I just thought is was interesting some of the things that were being printed at the time. Almost like OJ in our time.
What do you all think?
Some interesting reports and gossip
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snokkums
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Some interesting reports and gossip
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Kat
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I think a lot of the sentiment of Victorian American men was what did eventually free Lizzie.
The newsmen were disgusted by the suffragettes, but it seems the male leadership thought just what was written there- that a young woman (in that day and age) could not have done it, and expressed just as you have posted. Well, with a bit better spelling- but then my spelling tonight stinks for some reason!
Have you a link to the website so I can find what is a quote vs. what you wrote? Thanks!
The newsmen were disgusted by the suffragettes, but it seems the male leadership thought just what was written there- that a young woman (in that day and age) could not have done it, and expressed just as you have posted. Well, with a bit better spelling- but then my spelling tonight stinks for some reason!
Have you a link to the website so I can find what is a quote vs. what you wrote? Thanks!
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snokkums
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The website is called: Clews The Historic True Crime.
http://laurajames.typepad.com/clews/lizzie borden/indexs.html.
I think if you just type in Clews The Historic
True Crime, you'll probably bring it up quick.
It did make a mention of Stefani as the editor and publisher of The Hatchet: Journal of Lizzie Borden studies and her being the webmaster of the online Borden encyclopedia. So I kind of got the idea that most of the information they had came from information already out there.
http://laurajames.typepad.com/clews/lizzie borden/indexs.html.
I think if you just type in Clews The Historic
True Crime, you'll probably bring it up quick.
It did make a mention of Stefani as the editor and publisher of The Hatchet: Journal of Lizzie Borden studies and her being the webmaster of the online Borden encyclopedia. So I kind of got the idea that most of the information they had came from information already out there.
Suicide is painless It brings on many changes and I will take my leave when I please.
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Harry
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twinsrwe
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Harry, you beat me to posting the complete link, so I removed the link from my following post... 
Kat, I hope the following post will help all of us...
Kat, I hope the following post will help all of us...
In remembrance of my beloved son:
"Vaya Con Dios" (Spanish for: "Go with God"), by Anne Murray ( https://tinyurl.com/y8nvqqx9 )
“God has you in heaven, but I have you in my heart.” ~ TobyMac (https://tinyurl.com/rakc5nd )
"Vaya Con Dios" (Spanish for: "Go with God"), by Anne Murray ( https://tinyurl.com/y8nvqqx9 )
“God has you in heaven, but I have you in my heart.” ~ TobyMac (https://tinyurl.com/rakc5nd )
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twinsrwe
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Robin, I haven't read the entire article, yet, but it appears that the information you are asking us about is under the heading: A Puzzle Psychologic.
I hope you don't mind that I copied and pasted this article in it's entirety, which is shown below in a blue font. I also put the information you posted in a black font with bold highlight, so we can all see what is a quote from the article vs. what you wrote:
A Puzzle Psychologic
To anyone interested in famous historical murders, the Borden case is intoxicating. One feels compelled to warn a neophyte that it might be best to eschew this libation. You would save yourself from spending dozens of hours in devotionals and hundreds of dollars on books.
For some, it’s too late – and for you I share my collection of all-time favorite Lizzie Borden quotes, noted here and there through my course of study. The journalists who covered the 1893 double murder trial, drunk on sensation, churned out reams of purple and asinine prose. They gushed platitudes in defense of the accused and so nastily decried the presence of women in the courtroom that even today their great-grandsons would be embarrassed.
In their defense, they followed public opinion. Having licked their fingers and felt the wind – or simply having read whole forests transformed into stacks of letters to editors, like this one printed in The New York World --
It seems to me that Miss Borden has been arrested on village gossip and nothing else. Think of the stigma on the life of this young, proud, intelligent woman!
-- the reporters sided with Lizzie from the get-go. “The law itself holds Lizzie Borden innocent,” said The Baltimore Sun. “She has been most pitiably enmeshed by circumstances, and does not her case call for the kindest consideration on the part of everybody?”
In kindest consideration, The Lowell Times relayed that “the statistics of crime show that poison is the usual weapon of the murderess. Occasionally frenzied women use revolvers; but an edged tool is scarcely ever used by that sex.”
Thus, Lizzie could not have butchered her parents. The Times went on:
It not only required a fiend’s heart, but a giant’s strength, and to believe that it could have been committed by a physically weak woman, whose entire life has been one of refined influences, of Christian profession and work of filial devotion, of modesty and self-abnegation, is to set aside as of no value all that experience and observation have taught us.
In a similar vein, The Fall River Herald declared, to the nods of its readers, that --
Cruelty and the shedding of blood for blood's sake are a man’s prerogative, or if they are ever found developed in a woman the cases are so rare that we may well afford to give Lizzie Borden the benefit of the doubt.
Well, not all the readers agreed. Some grumbled, and in response, The New Bedford Mercury waxed sarcastic:
“Lizzie Borden is too well treated,” comes the cry from Fall River busybodies. “She is as comfortable as any prisoner could be.” This is a grave charge. Lizzie ought to be suspended by the thumbs, a la Private Iams, or placed in an especially dirty room, or housed up with rats, or otherwise maltreated. She has a little money and an example ought to be made of her for daring to possess it. Hale her to the deepest dungeon beneath the castle moat and apply the torture.
As the case progressed, Lizzie was arrested, and reporters could not completely ignore the overwhelming circumstantial evidence against the defendant. At one point even The Boston Herald acknowledged it, albeit briefly and a passing fashion:
There were a number of incidents in her course of procedure at the time which can be described, with no approach toward exaggeration, as suspicious in their character.
Famous columnist Joe Howard of The New York Recorder also acknowledged the central question of the case, which was Lizzie herself. “She is not an ordinary woman,” he said. “She is a puzzle psychologic.”
Then the trial began, drawing famous reporters from across the country – including Julian Ralph, Charles Edward Russell, and other household pen names. But all eyes were on Lizzie. The Boston Globe printed this dispatch from the first day of the trial:
There she sat and is to sit for weeks, alone in the open middle of the court room, as nearly like a pilloried criminal as it is possible for a woman to be, now that there are no actual pillories. The strain which her situation produces on intelligent minds is felt by all who are connected with the court. They admit it. They talk of Hester Prynne and Jeannie Deans and of other women whose fearful experiences are suggested by this girl’s misery.
Once the proceeding was well underway, the press grew impatient. “If the government can show that it was justified in arresting the girl,” said The Worcester Telegram, “it had better be about it.” The trial dragged on and the reporters turned their attentions to the audience, and one can almost hear them snarl and see them roll their eyes as they comment on the large number of women in attendance.
From The New York Tribune:
There is no question of deportment with the audience. It is the audience of a New England country town, an audience of factory hands, fishermen, sea-going lads, lawyers, business men and all kinds of women, good and bad, homely and beautiful, vulgar and gentle, that are born to gladden and trouble the earth.
And The New York Press:
The “amen corner” is right across the bar from the jury box. It holds just twelve women, the elite of the deputy sheriff’s entirely respectable friends, and every one of them has hanged, drawn and quartered Lizzie Borden long ago, because she looks “wild” and spiteful.
And The Fall River Herald:
Is it curiosity or sympathy that attracts so many women to the district court room? Some women are blessed in not having any household cares to bother them.
Before all was said and done, The Boston Record would opine that “It is human nature that is as much on trial as Lizzie Borden.” And indeed it was. In a regrettable defeat for the progress of humanity and justice, Lizzie was acquitted.
You're right Robin, the article is pretty interesting, to say the least. There is another part of this article that I found particularly interesting:
... Some grumbled, and in response, The New Bedford Mercury waxed sarcastic:
“Lizzie Borden is too well treated,” comes the cry from Fall River busybodies. “She is as comfortable as any prisoner could be.” This is a grave charge. Lizzie ought to be suspended by the thumbs, a la Private Iams, or placed in an especially dirty room, or housed up with rats, or otherwise maltreated. She has a little money and an example ought to be made of her for daring to possess it. Hale her to the deepest dungeon beneath the castle moat and apply the torture.
Man, talk about cruelty!!!
I hope you don't mind that I copied and pasted this article in it's entirety, which is shown below in a blue font. I also put the information you posted in a black font with bold highlight, so we can all see what is a quote from the article vs. what you wrote:
A Puzzle Psychologic
To anyone interested in famous historical murders, the Borden case is intoxicating. One feels compelled to warn a neophyte that it might be best to eschew this libation. You would save yourself from spending dozens of hours in devotionals and hundreds of dollars on books.
For some, it’s too late – and for you I share my collection of all-time favorite Lizzie Borden quotes, noted here and there through my course of study. The journalists who covered the 1893 double murder trial, drunk on sensation, churned out reams of purple and asinine prose. They gushed platitudes in defense of the accused and so nastily decried the presence of women in the courtroom that even today their great-grandsons would be embarrassed.
In their defense, they followed public opinion. Having licked their fingers and felt the wind – or simply having read whole forests transformed into stacks of letters to editors, like this one printed in The New York World --
It seems to me that Miss Borden has been arrested on village gossip and nothing else. Think of the stigma on the life of this young, proud, intelligent woman!
-- the reporters sided with Lizzie from the get-go. “The law itself holds Lizzie Borden innocent,” said The Baltimore Sun. “She has been most pitiably enmeshed by circumstances, and does not her case call for the kindest consideration on the part of everybody?”
In kindest consideration, The Lowell Times relayed that “the statistics of crime show that poison is the usual weapon of the murderess. Occasionally frenzied women use revolvers; but an edged tool is scarcely ever used by that sex.”
Thus, Lizzie could not have butchered her parents. The Times went on:
It not only required a fiend’s heart, but a giant’s strength, and to believe that it could have been committed by a physically weak woman, whose entire life has been one of refined influences, of Christian profession and work of filial devotion, of modesty and self-abnegation, is to set aside as of no value all that experience and observation have taught us.
In a similar vein, The Fall River Herald declared, to the nods of its readers, that --
Cruelty and the shedding of blood for blood's sake are a man’s prerogative, or if they are ever found developed in a woman the cases are so rare that we may well afford to give Lizzie Borden the benefit of the doubt.
Well, not all the readers agreed. Some grumbled, and in response, The New Bedford Mercury waxed sarcastic:
“Lizzie Borden is too well treated,” comes the cry from Fall River busybodies. “She is as comfortable as any prisoner could be.” This is a grave charge. Lizzie ought to be suspended by the thumbs, a la Private Iams, or placed in an especially dirty room, or housed up with rats, or otherwise maltreated. She has a little money and an example ought to be made of her for daring to possess it. Hale her to the deepest dungeon beneath the castle moat and apply the torture.
As the case progressed, Lizzie was arrested, and reporters could not completely ignore the overwhelming circumstantial evidence against the defendant. At one point even The Boston Herald acknowledged it, albeit briefly and a passing fashion:
There were a number of incidents in her course of procedure at the time which can be described, with no approach toward exaggeration, as suspicious in their character.
Famous columnist Joe Howard of The New York Recorder also acknowledged the central question of the case, which was Lizzie herself. “She is not an ordinary woman,” he said. “She is a puzzle psychologic.”
Then the trial began, drawing famous reporters from across the country – including Julian Ralph, Charles Edward Russell, and other household pen names. But all eyes were on Lizzie. The Boston Globe printed this dispatch from the first day of the trial:
There she sat and is to sit for weeks, alone in the open middle of the court room, as nearly like a pilloried criminal as it is possible for a woman to be, now that there are no actual pillories. The strain which her situation produces on intelligent minds is felt by all who are connected with the court. They admit it. They talk of Hester Prynne and Jeannie Deans and of other women whose fearful experiences are suggested by this girl’s misery.
Once the proceeding was well underway, the press grew impatient. “If the government can show that it was justified in arresting the girl,” said The Worcester Telegram, “it had better be about it.” The trial dragged on and the reporters turned their attentions to the audience, and one can almost hear them snarl and see them roll their eyes as they comment on the large number of women in attendance.
From The New York Tribune:
There is no question of deportment with the audience. It is the audience of a New England country town, an audience of factory hands, fishermen, sea-going lads, lawyers, business men and all kinds of women, good and bad, homely and beautiful, vulgar and gentle, that are born to gladden and trouble the earth.
And The New York Press:
The “amen corner” is right across the bar from the jury box. It holds just twelve women, the elite of the deputy sheriff’s entirely respectable friends, and every one of them has hanged, drawn and quartered Lizzie Borden long ago, because she looks “wild” and spiteful.
And The Fall River Herald:
Is it curiosity or sympathy that attracts so many women to the district court room? Some women are blessed in not having any household cares to bother them.
Before all was said and done, The Boston Record would opine that “It is human nature that is as much on trial as Lizzie Borden.” And indeed it was. In a regrettable defeat for the progress of humanity and justice, Lizzie was acquitted.
You're right Robin, the article is pretty interesting, to say the least. There is another part of this article that I found particularly interesting:
... Some grumbled, and in response, The New Bedford Mercury waxed sarcastic:
“Lizzie Borden is too well treated,” comes the cry from Fall River busybodies. “She is as comfortable as any prisoner could be.” This is a grave charge. Lizzie ought to be suspended by the thumbs, a la Private Iams, or placed in an especially dirty room, or housed up with rats, or otherwise maltreated. She has a little money and an example ought to be made of her for daring to possess it. Hale her to the deepest dungeon beneath the castle moat and apply the torture.
Man, talk about cruelty!!!
In remembrance of my beloved son:
"Vaya Con Dios" (Spanish for: "Go with God"), by Anne Murray ( https://tinyurl.com/y8nvqqx9 )
“God has you in heaven, but I have you in my heart.” ~ TobyMac (https://tinyurl.com/rakc5nd )
"Vaya Con Dios" (Spanish for: "Go with God"), by Anne Murray ( https://tinyurl.com/y8nvqqx9 )
“God has you in heaven, but I have you in my heart.” ~ TobyMac (https://tinyurl.com/rakc5nd )
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snokkums
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twinsrwe
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Thanks, Robin, I was hoping you wouldn't mind.
I also thought this article was quite interesting, strange, but interesting! It makes me wonder where these newspaper people were coming from, then again, there really is no need to wonder since it is plainly shown in the article. Jeez!!!
I also thought this article was quite interesting, strange, but interesting! It makes me wonder where these newspaper people were coming from, then again, there really is no need to wonder since it is plainly shown in the article. Jeez!!!
In remembrance of my beloved son:
"Vaya Con Dios" (Spanish for: "Go with God"), by Anne Murray ( https://tinyurl.com/y8nvqqx9 )
“God has you in heaven, but I have you in my heart.” ~ TobyMac (https://tinyurl.com/rakc5nd )
"Vaya Con Dios" (Spanish for: "Go with God"), by Anne Murray ( https://tinyurl.com/y8nvqqx9 )
“God has you in heaven, but I have you in my heart.” ~ TobyMac (https://tinyurl.com/rakc5nd )
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snokkums
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I think that newspaper people will do just about any thing to get a story. They do it now, and they did then. If you look at the stories in the papers today and then they were coming up with anything to sell a papar.
Suicide is painless It brings on many changes and I will take my leave when I please.
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patsy
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It is interesting to get a feel for how the news and people were slanted in that day and place. Thanks for bringing it here, Snokkums. How about it's a man's prerogative to kill in such a way (hope I understood that right), and of course a murderess would resort to poison. Hmmm.
I think we've expanded on the ideas of torture these days. But at least we don't draw and quarter and burn entrails anymore.
Can we pick out any reporters equal to Nancy Grace or some of the other commentators/investigators the we see today I wonder.
I think we've expanded on the ideas of torture these days. But at least we don't draw and quarter and burn entrails anymore.
Can we pick out any reporters equal to Nancy Grace or some of the other commentators/investigators the we see today I wonder.
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Harry
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No Nancy Grace but there were at least 4 or more female reporters who attended and covered the trial.
One Kate McGuirk knew Lizzie and had an interview with her. She was a believer in Lizzie's innocence.
The most well-known one was Elizabeth Jordan. She later went on to write her autobiography Three Rousing Cheers in which she makes reference to the Borden case. Here she is:
One Kate McGuirk knew Lizzie and had an interview with her. She was a believer in Lizzie's innocence.
The most well-known one was Elizabeth Jordan. She later went on to write her autobiography Three Rousing Cheers in which she makes reference to the Borden case. Here she is:
I know I ask perfection of a quite imperfect world
And fool enough to think that's what I'll find
And fool enough to think that's what I'll find
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patsy
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Harry
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Patsy, haven't read it myself but from what I've heard it contains more than a few factual errors.
If she did write it at 73 that would have been in 1940, some 47 years after the trial. There's bound to be errors when trying to recall that span of time.
She was born (Rebello, p205) in 1867 which made her only 26 at the time of the trial. She died in 1947.
If she did write it at 73 that would have been in 1940, some 47 years after the trial. There's bound to be errors when trying to recall that span of time.
She was born (Rebello, p205) in 1867 which made her only 26 at the time of the trial. She died in 1947.
I know I ask perfection of a quite imperfect world
And fool enough to think that's what I'll find
And fool enough to think that's what I'll find
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snokkums
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Harry
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Robin, I wouldn't buy it for the information it contains on the Borden case.
Rebello, page 201, lists the following for it:
"Lizzie Borden and the Murders," Three Rousing Cheers, New York: D. Appleton-Century Company, 110, 122-123."
If that is all there is (3 pages) then it's not really a Borden book.
Rebello says it contained many inaccuracies on the case which I have also heard from other sources.
Rebello, page 201, lists the following for it:
"Lizzie Borden and the Murders," Three Rousing Cheers, New York: D. Appleton-Century Company, 110, 122-123."
If that is all there is (3 pages) then it's not really a Borden book.
Rebello says it contained many inaccuracies on the case which I have also heard from other sources.
I know I ask perfection of a quite imperfect world
And fool enough to think that's what I'll find
And fool enough to think that's what I'll find
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snokkums
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mbhenty
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I would have loved to pal around with Elizabeth Jordan and have a couple of drinks and talk the Borden trial.
Old Liz J. was either mad, a fibber, or just the worst reporter in the world.
I have a SIGNED COPY of Ms Jordan's book. There are about 7 pages written about the trial.
I prize it.
Why?
Jordan was at the trial with her fellow reporter Ralph. But she got so much wrong in her book that it is laughable. The first time I read it I almost rolled on the floor.
To someone like me, a Lizzie Borden Book Collector, Jordan's book is a must have. She got soooooooooooo much wrong.
for instance:
She claimed that Lizzie and Emma were both teachers in the public schools in Fall River.
She claimed that after the trial most of the money went to pay for it.
She claimed that Emma was the younger sister.
She claimed that Emma went insane after the trial.
She claimed that both girls moved out of Fall River after the trial.
She claimed that the murders happened around two in the afternoon.
She claimed that Lizzie walked across the lawn to a neighbor to sound the alarm.
She claimed that all the windows of the house were opened when the murders happened.
She claimed that the 3 judges all knew Lizzie since she was a little girl.
She claimed that: "LIZZIE, AS SHE TOLD THE STORY, WAS OUT IN THE BARN BACK OF THE HOUSE, BRODING TENDERLY OVER A SETTING HEN WHICH THAT DAY HAD SUDDENLY DECLINED TO SET".
She claimed that: Yes, etc, etc.
There is more...............
YES, all this is written in her book....
I loved it. She was Mad. How can someone, a reporter, be at the trial and get it so wrong.
Or did she work for the "ENQUIRER"
Still, ya gotta luv it..............
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snokkums
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mbhenty
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YES HARRY:
Jordan was a story writer and wrote many books of fiction and short stories. If memory serves me well, Elizabeth worked for the New York World paper and wrote a column based on true stories of the day, human interest pieces if you will, in which she embellished greatly------thus the Borden account in her book could have been written in jest or taken from one of her "fictional columns".
Again, we may have a fiction writer here who had no business writing true crime from the pulpit of fiction. I have always subscribed to the belief that this was the disease of V. Lincoln and Spiering and Brown. If in fact an ailment, it is one that made them lots of money.
But in the true writing style of the book, it sure does not appear that way. To be that wrong though, if we are to consider her a responsible and sober writer, we can only conclude that her book is a spoof.
When she wrote her book of memoirs she was into her seventies. Could her mental health have been failing? She died well into her Eighties, about a decade after writhing "Three Rousing Cheers".
Non-the-less, she's an interesting lady.
Below are a couple of Elizabeth Jordan's novels as samples. These were taken from Ebay.
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