Bridget the barfly?

Angel · Post by **Angel** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:36 am

Where did Bridget go in the evenings when she was off? Wasn't it improper for young women to go gallavanting about unchaperoned at night? Could she have hung out with some unsavory characters who could have had something to do with the crime? How well was she questioned regarding her past and her acquaintances?

SteveS. · Post by **SteveS.** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:33 pm

I would think she probably spent most evenings up in her room but when she did go out I would imagine she went visiting relatives or friends in the city. Depending what the "trip" out was for decided if a chaperone was needed or not. Remember, even Lizzie was out unchaperoned at night just the night before the murders when she went to visit Miss. Russell. As for questioning her about her past and aqaintances, I know from testimony that her past employers and relatives that she had in the city was discussed so I would imagine that the police did question her to some extent on this subject.

Smudgeman · Post by **Smudgeman** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:47 pm

I do think I remember a story that Bridget did go out and drink beer sometimes, why wouldn't she want to have a drink and relax after a day at the Borden house? I think maybe Kat would know more about this?

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:02 pm

Its my understanding at that point in the Victorian era that it was okay for a woman to be out walking alone, but, a companion was preferred. It was only when a woman was in the company of a man that a chaperone was necessary unless the woman was consulting that particular man on business.

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:48 pm

Shopping, going to church, making calls, visiting, doing charity works were okay of course alone for a lady. You may recall the woman reporter who checked into the Hotel Mellen alone and caused a huge stir. Ladies generally travelled escorted if possible, by a male relative or often another woman or group of women. Lizzie had her lady friends aplenty for the Grand Tour and they took Miss Cox for chaperone. A mixed couple out in public had to be on guard not to breach any rules of propriety. The gentleman could take a lady's arm to help her across the street (at the elbow) and he always took the curbside so as to protect her from flying mud, passing horses and carriages and dangers in the street. After all, a girl's reputation was her highest bargaining chip in the matrimony game, although the fellas might sow a few wild oats before tying the knot.

Bridget probably had a lot of immigrant friends in Corky's Row, relatives, maybe Mary Doolan next door, St. Mary's church across the street, and other reminders of home. Church was a safe place for single girls to meet the opposite sex under supervised conditions and much fun was had at church meetings, suppers and picnics, outings, hymn sings and such.

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:01 am

Out with friends, making house calls to keep up appearances, shopping and maybe a well deserved drink. After working for Scrooge Borden she probably needed one.

-1bigsteve (o:

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:48 am

It had been surmised by others in the past that Bridget may have liked her beer based soley on imagination coupled with Bridget being Irish and having headaches in the morning.

Not a totally unreasonable assumption but nothing ever mentioned about that.

Bridget says herself - as an example- what she was doing out Wednesday night until around 10 pm:

Trial
Q. I was about to ask you where you passed Wednesday evening?

Page 201

A. I was up in my friend's in Third street.

Q. Was it far away from the house?
A. No, sir, not far.

Q. What time did you go and what time did you return on the Wednesday evening?
A. I guess I got out about 7 o'clock on Wednesday evening and I went down Second street, called for a friend of mine on Third street: we went down Main street and up Morgan street and turned up Third street to my friend's on Third street.

Q. If you can tell me about what time you got home, I would like to have you?
A. I think about five minutes past ten.

--She is also asked about men friends and other places she worked.

The newspapers said she was mourning a deceased fiance- I think from Newport?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:55 am

Bridget says she and her friend went down Main Street so maybe the shops were still open around 7, 7:30? I just looked at some ads for 1892 shops in the City Directory but they don't give the hours of operation on any I looked at.
I know some banks gave their hours on ads, but not the stores I happened to check.

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:58 am

As I surmised in the past, there was always window shopping. In summer its usually pretty light out until 8:00 or so, I would think enough to see into shop windows.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:10 am

I agree, Susan. And a shpowner can keep flexible hours!

I'm trying to picture a younger Bridget in one of her other earlier positions, joshing and jostling and giggling with a girlfriend or 2, in a downtown area of a summer's eve.

Later I picture her deportment as more rigid on the city streets, head held high- at 26 years, she would want to look like a *lady.*

As for drinking- I'm not Irish, so I have no idea if Bridget had any predisposition toward an ale or 2 of an evening. I wonder what the odds are?

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:14 am

Well, if the Bordens kept a Temperance teetotaller house- maybe the odd nip of sherry or a cold brew was a needed prescription. A great many of the patent medicines were loaded with alcohol though- Garfield Tea does not seem to be one of those.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:52 am

You read my mind! I was just thinking about a teetotal household with Bridget as the servant! While I was lying in the sun.

I also do not mean to imply anything about Irish and drinking as a stereotype. I am surmising about what was thought or believed about Irish in that era and time and place. Since we don't know any details about Bridget's family in Ireland, we cannot know if they were a part of that culture of imbibing.

SteveS. · Post by **SteveS.** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:31 pm

I just can't imagine Bridget chancing it coming home to that household with the smell of alcohol on her breath. Even if she stayed out until 10pm and the Borden's were usualy in bed already. She had to pass by Mr. and Mrs. Borden's room on the way to her room and if ever by chance Mr. or Mrs. Borden emerged from their room or Lizze was dowstairs to use the water closet in the basement, I would think it would be automatic termination for the girl if she smelled of liquor, or possibly even just cigarette or cigar smoke for that matter.

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:40 pm

Yes...poor Maggie may have had to make do with Lydia Pinkham's medicinal compound!

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:47 pm

So are you surmising that Bridget, if she wanted alcohol, got it thru patent medicines?

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:39 pm

I probably should have put a

after that sentence- it was a joke. Although I expect there some women who became overfond of their "medicine". Like so many other things- we can never really know for sure if Bridget liked a wee drop,

SteveS. · Post by **SteveS.** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:20 am

I might be stereotyping but I was always under the impression that in the late 1800's it was just the "bad" loose girls that drank. A lady didn't embibe alcoholic spirits. A lady didn't have to be someone of means, it was someone who just had upstanding moral values. I just can't imagine Bridget drinking even though God knows if I were her i'd be drunk as a skunk on my time off.

Angel · Post by **Angel** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:25 am

I didn't know skunks had that inclination.

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:37 am

* hic...

Angel · Post by **Angel** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:45 am

SteveS. · Post by **SteveS.** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:04 pm

LOL Shelley and Angel. See...skunks are inclined to get drunk.

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:35 pm

I don't think she was quite the partier, but she might have gone out for a beer. Especially after working in that house. It was a dry house, and andy was such a tight wad, she might have needed a relaxer.

SallyG · Post by **SallyG** » Fri May 04, 2007 3:19 pm

I remember watching a History Channel program not long ago, talking about early immigrants who would get a pail of beer to take home for dinner for the family. I can't remember if they were Irish or not, but I was thinking they were. For an young Irish immigrant girl working as a domestic, it may have been entirely acceptable to have a few beers in a "pub". American society ladies followed a whole different set of rules.

nbcatlover · Post by **nbcatlover** » Fri May 16, 2008 4:12 pm

The Coca-Cola Company was founded in 1892, with versions of the recipe available from the 1880s. Nothing like a carbonated drink with cocaine to perk a girl up in a teetotaling home!

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Fri May 16, 2008 9:26 pm

Well, I did a search to see if it was the norm for Irish girls to drink in America, couldn't find a blessed thing on it though. If we had some Irish servant girls' journals from the time period to look through, there might be something in there on whether they hoisted a few or not.

I did find an interesting song from the Victorian era entitled, "No Irish Need Apply". Here is the link to the site with the song:

http://tigger.uic.edu/~rjensen/song.htm

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Sat May 17, 2008 1:20 pm

I think she spent alot of time at church. Maybe shopping too. Don't think she was much of a partier.