Notice it gives a sort of reason why she might not ever *marry.*
He may be profiling a lady of the day, and not a lady of Today. (In 1892, headstrong women were not much in demand.)
Astrological Lizzie 1893
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Kat
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Astrological Lizzie 1893
There are files I've collected that I've not really read yet. This was one I found. I believe there is another, on phrenology- reading the bumps on heads. I wonder what Lizzie thought of all this?
Notice it gives a sort of reason why she might not ever *marry.*
He may be profiling a lady of the day, and not a lady of Today. (In 1892, headstrong women were not much in demand.)
Notice it gives a sort of reason why she might not ever *marry.*
He may be profiling a lady of the day, and not a lady of Today. (In 1892, headstrong women were not much in demand.)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Kat
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Here is a January, 1893 item from the Boston Globe.
This would precede the other *reading.*
We also have one from Terence's Collection that is called "Lizzie Borden's Head." If anyone is interested, I will transcribe it. Otherwise sorrily, it is not a good candidate for scanning.
This would precede the other *reading.*
We also have one from Terence's Collection that is called "Lizzie Borden's Head." If anyone is interested, I will transcribe it. Otherwise sorrily, it is not a good candidate for scanning.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Kat
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Chicago Evening News, November 4, 1892
"Lizzie Borden's Head"
. . . Miss Borden cannot be easily characterized: her nature, as described by the neighbors, none of whom knew her intimately, is cold, passionless, self-sufficient.
They say she had no confidants and that she was dominated only by her stern New England creed of right and wrong. But it was not until the crime had been committed that they molded into words their impressions of her and, with the best intentions in the world. Subsequent events must have had an influence in the estimate of human nature.
Her picture has been printed in nearly every newspaper from San Fransisco to the gulf, but by a curious chance a man who claims to correctly read dispositions by the contours of head and face, does not know her by her portrait. The photograph by which the accompanying cut was made was given him without a possible clew by which he could discover its identity. At the end of fifteen minutes examination he gave me this 'analysis and criticism,' to use the technical phrase of phrenology.
'Oct 27, 1892-- Lady: We see in this portrait practical talent. The fullness across the lower part of the forehead evinces large perceptive faculties as a group, making her bright, quick to see, to know and to remember, giving the talent necessary for practical education, for art, mechanism and for business.
'The head seems to be broad in the sides above and about the ears, showing bravery, energy, severity and a strong desire for ownership, and laying the foundation for good business talent, and the tendency to push the cause which has business involved in it to a successful termination.
'The face indicates power. The broad cheek bones and the prominence of them, the massiveness of the lower jaw, as it makes an angle to get up toward the hair, show vital power and the tendency to be thorough and severe.
'The mouth indicates determination and resolution. The breadth of the head above and about the ears shows courage, selfishness and executive ability.
'She appears to have large firmness, that is shown in the height of the head, on a line from the opening of one ear to that of the other over the top.
'We think she has a pretty good share of self-esteem. She is self-willed, courageous, high-tempered, secretive, fond of property. She is not a thinker and reasoner; she is a critic, but she is rather light in the reasoning power, though amply developed in the abilities which relate to practical knowledge and the ability to be dangerous and artistic.
'If the back and top of the head were available it would be an aid to the full estimate of her character.
'She appears to have more courage than prudence, more determination than pliability, more force than restraint of mind.'"
"NELSON SIZER, President of American Institute of Phrenology."
etc. . .
--Well, some people subscribed to this stuff back then- it might influence people to have read this kind of thing in the newspapers. Do we see this anymore- even in the Enquirer?
"Lizzie Borden's Head"
. . . Miss Borden cannot be easily characterized: her nature, as described by the neighbors, none of whom knew her intimately, is cold, passionless, self-sufficient.
They say she had no confidants and that she was dominated only by her stern New England creed of right and wrong. But it was not until the crime had been committed that they molded into words their impressions of her and, with the best intentions in the world. Subsequent events must have had an influence in the estimate of human nature.
Her picture has been printed in nearly every newspaper from San Fransisco to the gulf, but by a curious chance a man who claims to correctly read dispositions by the contours of head and face, does not know her by her portrait. The photograph by which the accompanying cut was made was given him without a possible clew by which he could discover its identity. At the end of fifteen minutes examination he gave me this 'analysis and criticism,' to use the technical phrase of phrenology.
'Oct 27, 1892-- Lady: We see in this portrait practical talent. The fullness across the lower part of the forehead evinces large perceptive faculties as a group, making her bright, quick to see, to know and to remember, giving the talent necessary for practical education, for art, mechanism and for business.
'The head seems to be broad in the sides above and about the ears, showing bravery, energy, severity and a strong desire for ownership, and laying the foundation for good business talent, and the tendency to push the cause which has business involved in it to a successful termination.
'The face indicates power. The broad cheek bones and the prominence of them, the massiveness of the lower jaw, as it makes an angle to get up toward the hair, show vital power and the tendency to be thorough and severe.
'The mouth indicates determination and resolution. The breadth of the head above and about the ears shows courage, selfishness and executive ability.
'She appears to have large firmness, that is shown in the height of the head, on a line from the opening of one ear to that of the other over the top.
'We think she has a pretty good share of self-esteem. She is self-willed, courageous, high-tempered, secretive, fond of property. She is not a thinker and reasoner; she is a critic, but she is rather light in the reasoning power, though amply developed in the abilities which relate to practical knowledge and the ability to be dangerous and artistic.
'If the back and top of the head were available it would be an aid to the full estimate of her character.
'She appears to have more courage than prudence, more determination than pliability, more force than restraint of mind.'"
"NELSON SIZER, President of American Institute of Phrenology."
etc. . .
--Well, some people subscribed to this stuff back then- it might influence people to have read this kind of thing in the newspapers. Do we see this anymore- even in the Enquirer?
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snokkums
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Kat
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snokkums
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Maybe she kept it quiet? I know it was the going thing for the upper class, but with being accused of killing her parents, people didn't want to be around her, then to be invovled with the occult, might just been to much for people.
She seems to be the type of person to be interested in everything, maybe she might have tried. And if it was just a try, might not have note worthy enought to make a document of it.
She seems to be the type of person to be interested in everything, maybe she might have tried. And if it was just a try, might not have note worthy enought to make a document of it.
Suicide is painless It brings on many changes and I will take my leave when I please.
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Kat
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That's astute, actually, and original.
I can picture it.
The only drawback I can think of would be if she were guilty and believed in the occult, she might very well steer clear in case a victim returned to name her as killer!
It was said that Morse had his fortune told but the reader stopped short and said basically *You don't wanna know.*
That's a news item- maybe bogus.
But we haven't explored Lizbeth dabbling in this type of thing that Emma might have strenuously objected to- going to Rev. Buck and he tells her to leave her house and sister.
You're correct that this stuff was big back then.
I can picture it.
The only drawback I can think of would be if she were guilty and believed in the occult, she might very well steer clear in case a victim returned to name her as killer!
It was said that Morse had his fortune told but the reader stopped short and said basically *You don't wanna know.*
That's a news item- maybe bogus.
But we haven't explored Lizbeth dabbling in this type of thing that Emma might have strenuously objected to- going to Rev. Buck and he tells her to leave her house and sister.
You're correct that this stuff was big back then.
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Susan
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Thanks for the interesting posts, Kat. Its really neat to see that people were trying to analyze Lizzie even during her lifetime with what little info they had on her. I'm curious about who was it that Lizzie knew that died in 1897 that was supposed to be the murderer; someone that she was willing to go to jail for?
“Sometimes when we are generous in small, barely detectable ways it can change someone else's life forever.”-Margaret Cho comedienne
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Susan
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Well that would be a new twist on things, Luranna murdering her own brother and his wife. She was alleged to be ill at the time of the murders and too ill to take the stand, but, could her illness have been of the mental kind? I can't imagine what would be a motive for her to do it and for Lizzie to take the blame.
Yes, I could totally see Lizzie hosting a seance or a night of table tipping. Spiritualism was very popular in the late 1800s-early 1900s.
Yes, I could totally see Lizzie hosting a seance or a night of table tipping. Spiritualism was very popular in the late 1800s-early 1900s.
“Sometimes when we are generous in small, barely detectable ways it can change someone else's life forever.”-Margaret Cho comedienne
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Kat
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Thank goodness for your vivid imagination! This is *fun!*
Here is more- this time from the *Spirit World*:
Fall River Herald, possibly from Aug. 23, 1892
"Job Too Much for the Spirits."
An Onset medium assured a Boston Globe reporter that there was a great diversity of opinion in the spirit world as to the identity of the person who murdered Mr. and Mrs. Borden. "You see," she said, "spirits don't know everything, at least many spirits do not. And if they didn't happen to be looking just at the moment when the murder was committed they couldn't be expected to know about it."
"But," ventured the reporter. 'couldn't Mr. and Mrs. Borden be hunted up in the spirit world and solve the mystery for us?"
"Yes I suppose they might be found somewhere if a search were instituted for them. But even if their whereabouts were discovered it's not certain that they would know who the murderer was, for Mr. Borden was asleep and Mrs. Borden's back might have been turned."
"But it would seem," the reporter urged, "that if Mr. and Mrs. Borden could be found and induced to tell all they know about the circumstances preceding the fatal deed, some clue or some corroboration of existing suspicions might be obtained.'
"Yes," the medium assented vaguely, "but the trouble is that when people go suddenly into the spirit world, as Mr. and Mrs. Borden went, they are apt to be in a dazed or half-conscious state for a long while and unable to remember anything."
The medium said that spirits often find as great difficulty as mortals in solving
mysteries and she wouldn't undertake the job of trying to discover the Fall River murderer.
Also, same page:
“More From the Spirits
“Both Mr. and Mrs. Borden Talk- The Latter Comforts Lizzie”
Two more messages have been received from the spirit world, says a correspondent of the Boston Post. Sunday evening the spirit of Andrew J. Borden knocked again at the brain of this New Bedford medium, while Monday night from 8 o’clock till 10:30 the spirit of Mrs. Borden whispered strange words that may or may not mean much.
Monday night’s message from Andrew J. Borden read as follows: ‘No one knows where the axe is but you. Now I want you to publish when you go to the hidden scene; start early in the morning when the air is clear. Two weeks from now you will know much more about this. We want justice done to this dear woman.’
‘Do you mean the medium?’
‘Yes; you must see, my friend, that she is well rewarded. I know that you can find the axe. A number of persons have been there, but have found no trace. Even the man who hid it cannot locate the place now. You cannot find the axe unless the medium goes with you. They have not got this man’s name I gave you; don’t wait too long before you go for the man.’
‘Shall I write to the Pinkerton’s?’
‘Don’t write; let them come to you.’
‘Did the man have dark circles beneath his eyes?’
‘Yes.’
‘Were his clothes dark blue instead of a black or dark brown?’
‘I cannot tell; only they were dark. When I was struck I was in the mortal, when I saw I was in the spirit; I feel I am losing my strength; I must leave you; good night. ANDREW J. BORDEN.’
Monday evening the following was received from the spirit of Mrs. Borden:
‘This is Mrs. Borden. I have come to thank you for what you have done for us.’
‘Can you give us a test?’
‘Tell them to take care of my things and a copied picture. I will do as much to help them. Tell Lizzie I know the window was left open; I know the man can be found. Please write this to Emma: “I want to know the reason you don’t go to Fall River.” The reason was given and accepted by the spirit, and the influence left, signing “Wife of A. J. Borden.”
Here is more- this time from the *Spirit World*:
Fall River Herald, possibly from Aug. 23, 1892
"Job Too Much for the Spirits."
An Onset medium assured a Boston Globe reporter that there was a great diversity of opinion in the spirit world as to the identity of the person who murdered Mr. and Mrs. Borden. "You see," she said, "spirits don't know everything, at least many spirits do not. And if they didn't happen to be looking just at the moment when the murder was committed they couldn't be expected to know about it."
"But," ventured the reporter. 'couldn't Mr. and Mrs. Borden be hunted up in the spirit world and solve the mystery for us?"
"Yes I suppose they might be found somewhere if a search were instituted for them. But even if their whereabouts were discovered it's not certain that they would know who the murderer was, for Mr. Borden was asleep and Mrs. Borden's back might have been turned."
"But it would seem," the reporter urged, "that if Mr. and Mrs. Borden could be found and induced to tell all they know about the circumstances preceding the fatal deed, some clue or some corroboration of existing suspicions might be obtained.'
"Yes," the medium assented vaguely, "but the trouble is that when people go suddenly into the spirit world, as Mr. and Mrs. Borden went, they are apt to be in a dazed or half-conscious state for a long while and unable to remember anything."
The medium said that spirits often find as great difficulty as mortals in solving
mysteries and she wouldn't undertake the job of trying to discover the Fall River murderer.
Also, same page:
“More From the Spirits
“Both Mr. and Mrs. Borden Talk- The Latter Comforts Lizzie”
Two more messages have been received from the spirit world, says a correspondent of the Boston Post. Sunday evening the spirit of Andrew J. Borden knocked again at the brain of this New Bedford medium, while Monday night from 8 o’clock till 10:30 the spirit of Mrs. Borden whispered strange words that may or may not mean much.
Monday night’s message from Andrew J. Borden read as follows: ‘No one knows where the axe is but you. Now I want you to publish when you go to the hidden scene; start early in the morning when the air is clear. Two weeks from now you will know much more about this. We want justice done to this dear woman.’
‘Do you mean the medium?’
‘Yes; you must see, my friend, that she is well rewarded. I know that you can find the axe. A number of persons have been there, but have found no trace. Even the man who hid it cannot locate the place now. You cannot find the axe unless the medium goes with you. They have not got this man’s name I gave you; don’t wait too long before you go for the man.’
‘Shall I write to the Pinkerton’s?’
‘Don’t write; let them come to you.’
‘Did the man have dark circles beneath his eyes?’
‘Yes.’
‘Were his clothes dark blue instead of a black or dark brown?’
‘I cannot tell; only they were dark. When I was struck I was in the mortal, when I saw I was in the spirit; I feel I am losing my strength; I must leave you; good night. ANDREW J. BORDEN.’
Monday evening the following was received from the spirit of Mrs. Borden:
‘This is Mrs. Borden. I have come to thank you for what you have done for us.’
‘Can you give us a test?’
‘Tell them to take care of my things and a copied picture. I will do as much to help them. Tell Lizzie I know the window was left open; I know the man can be found. Please write this to Emma: “I want to know the reason you don’t go to Fall River.” The reason was given and accepted by the spirit, and the influence left, signing “Wife of A. J. Borden.”
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DJ
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While strolling through the library yesterday, I passed by the book "The Power of Birthdays, Stars, and Numbers," by Saffi Crawford and Geraldine Sullivan (NY: Ballantine, 1998). Catnip. Here's what it says about LAB's "Star" (Interestingly, she is NOT listed among famous people born on July 19):
Lizzie was born under the influence of Procyon, a yellow and white binary star located on the body of the constellation Alpha Canis Minor.
"Primary Star's Influence: Procyon's influence bestows willpower, drive, and an ability to execute plans. This star also suggests much activity and unusual interests or occupations. Procyon imparts opportunities for wealth, success, and good fortune. This star frequently indicates a sudden turn of events that brings fame or notoriety as well as gains and losses. Therefore, you may need to learn patience, and taking the time to plan will secure a more successful outcome. Ancient interpetations of this star also warn against bites from dogs.
Linked to your Sun's degree, this star grants courage, ingenuity, unusual talents, and a chivalrous nature. Procyon denotes that you will have many loyal friends who will come to your assistance and provide help when it is needed most. This star also foretells of sudden fortunes gained through gifts or legacies."
That's everything on the Primary Star. Also under this entry, the "negatives" for someone born on this day: "Snobbery, carelessness, clumsy, crafty, deceptive."
Lizzie was born under the influence of Procyon, a yellow and white binary star located on the body of the constellation Alpha Canis Minor.
"Primary Star's Influence: Procyon's influence bestows willpower, drive, and an ability to execute plans. This star also suggests much activity and unusual interests or occupations. Procyon imparts opportunities for wealth, success, and good fortune. This star frequently indicates a sudden turn of events that brings fame or notoriety as well as gains and losses. Therefore, you may need to learn patience, and taking the time to plan will secure a more successful outcome. Ancient interpetations of this star also warn against bites from dogs.
Linked to your Sun's degree, this star grants courage, ingenuity, unusual talents, and a chivalrous nature. Procyon denotes that you will have many loyal friends who will come to your assistance and provide help when it is needed most. This star also foretells of sudden fortunes gained through gifts or legacies."
That's everything on the Primary Star. Also under this entry, the "negatives" for someone born on this day: "Snobbery, carelessness, clumsy, crafty, deceptive."
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DJ
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Thumbing around in the Crawford/Sullivan book--
Considering the following persons:
Andrew Borden, his two wives, his two surviving daughters, and that guy I just LOVE to discuss, J.V. Morse:
The strongest relationships, astro-speaking, would have been between Andrew and J.V. Also, between J.V. and Lizzie. In those two "for instance's" the birthdays match perfectly for "Love & Friendship."
(Could there have been more than meets the eye, in testimony, per these two relationships? Might J.V. and Lizzie at least have said, "Hello," to one another that fateful summer?)
Also: Between Andrew and Emma, there is a "beneficial" relationship match-up between the birthdays.
That's it for the birthday match-up's within this group.
Considering the following persons:
Andrew Borden, his two wives, his two surviving daughters, and that guy I just LOVE to discuss, J.V. Morse:
The strongest relationships, astro-speaking, would have been between Andrew and J.V. Also, between J.V. and Lizzie. In those two "for instance's" the birthdays match perfectly for "Love & Friendship."
(Could there have been more than meets the eye, in testimony, per these two relationships? Might J.V. and Lizzie at least have said, "Hello," to one another that fateful summer?)
Also: Between Andrew and Emma, there is a "beneficial" relationship match-up between the birthdays.
That's it for the birthday match-up's within this group.
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Tina-Kate
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I have the Birthday astrology book you're discussing. I just wanted to point out that someone who matched up on my personal Love & Friendship category turned out to be someone who has caused me a great many problems in my life & ended up being a very toxic relationship I had to discard.
So, I think it can work both ways here...
So, I think it can work both ways here...
“I am innocent. I leave it to my counsel to speak for me.”
—Lizzie A. Borden, June 20, 1893
—Lizzie A. Borden, June 20, 1893
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DJ
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Sorry to hear that Tina-Kate. Pat yourself on the back for having moved on, for having lived and learned. Too bad life doesn't come with a foolproof guidebook.
W/O prying, I assume that there was something that attracted you to this person before your relations soured.
Your experience is interesting, in light of A.J.B. & J.V.M. as well as Lizzie & J.V.M., as noted above.
I've got two "soul mate" listings among my intimates. We're not nor have we ever been romantically involved. Nevertheless, these two people have been constant, helpful presences in my life since they first entered it, decades ago, and we have grown closer over that time.
As a sidebar and back to Sylvia Browne-- she says we do have one, perfect soul mate, though we are highly unlikely to meet them in our lifetimes. Usually, they're on the Other Side when we're on this one.
W/O prying, I assume that there was something that attracted you to this person before your relations soured.
Your experience is interesting, in light of A.J.B. & J.V.M. as well as Lizzie & J.V.M., as noted above.
I've got two "soul mate" listings among my intimates. We're not nor have we ever been romantically involved. Nevertheless, these two people have been constant, helpful presences in my life since they first entered it, decades ago, and we have grown closer over that time.
As a sidebar and back to Sylvia Browne-- she says we do have one, perfect soul mate, though we are highly unlikely to meet them in our lifetimes. Usually, they're on the Other Side when we're on this one.
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Tina-Kate
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Goes with the "love & hate are two sides of the same coin" theory. Love & friendship may be very strong, but when negatives come into it (one does something or several negative things to hurt the other), it can become hate & enmity.
"...we do have one, perfect soul mate, though we are highly unlikely to meet them in our lifetimes. Usually, they're on the Other Side when we're on this one." According to my personal philosophy, that makes a lot of sense---tho I'm not a Sylvia Browne fan.
"...we do have one, perfect soul mate, though we are highly unlikely to meet them in our lifetimes. Usually, they're on the Other Side when we're on this one." According to my personal philosophy, that makes a lot of sense---tho I'm not a Sylvia Browne fan.
“I am innocent. I leave it to my counsel to speak for me.”
—Lizzie A. Borden, June 20, 1893
—Lizzie A. Borden, June 20, 1893