Robert Kieran, Preliminary Hearing

Nadzieja · Post by **Nadzieja** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:42 pm

I was reading the Preliminary Hearing again, and the testimony of Robert Kieran is missing so what was written was taken from the New Bedfod Evening Standard of Aug. 25, 1892. He was the person who drew the plan of the Borden house. My question was concerning the sofa. He said that when he got to the Borden house the sofa was not in the sitting room. It was brought in by Dr. Dolan's order. Why wasn't it still there and where was it brought from? It doesn't say when he actually went & drew up the plan, so I'm assuming that the bodies were moved to the caskets & the bloody carpets & sofa were taken out?? I was trying to put together a sequence of events for this period but I don't know what would have been customary, or the order in which the preparations were done. Anyone know what happened at that time?

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:55 pm

The Boston Globe of August 5th described the removal of the sofa from the house on the 4th:

"... At 5:35 the crowd outside were treated to a sensational repast, when the front door was opened and Undertaker Winward and his assistant bore out the sofa upon which Andrew J. Borden was lying when killed, to his wagon. It is an old fashioned, low, hair-upholstered affair, with a pine frame recently varnished. Evidence of the crime was plainly seen in a large blotch of blood near the head, which was discolored clear down to the cloth under the springs. Its presence in the house in its significant condition has become an eyesore to the family, and Dr. Dolan's consent to its removal was obtained. The undertaker stored it in a rear room of his building, where it will stay as long as it is required as evidence. ..."

It was brought back to the house on the 16th for Kieran to make his measurements. From the New Bedford Evening Standard of August 17th:

"Under instructions from Medical Examiner Dolan, Civil Engineer Kieran made a new and complete plan of the Borden house yesterday. All the rooms were measured and will be written up with special regard to distances. The bloody lounge was placed in the position it had when it held the dead body of Mr. Borden, and the exact length of the sofa to the nearest door and to the bloodstains on the woodwork was secured. Then the distance from the window of the sitting-room to the north window of Dr. Kelley's house was taken, and the exact number of feet from the house to the barn and back again to Mrs. Churchill's kitchen window was determined most accurately.

Then According to an Associated Press release in the Rochester Democrat Chronicle newspaper dated August 16th it was removed that same day.:

"...The sofa on which Mr. Borden was murdered was taken to the Central police station this morning, and will be kept there until after the trial. ..."

Then on June 6th, 1893 it was brought back to the house for the view when the jury visited the house. From the Boston Globe:

".. Under the direction of the police the sofa on which Mr. Borden was found after the murder, and which had been at the station ever since, was removed to the house in the forenoon and placed in the same position in which the police found it on that fatal day last August. It was undoubtedly the most interesting object in the house, for the stains of the blood from the many wounds of Mr. Borden are still plainly visible. ..."

I don't know when it left again for the court house in New Bedford.

BTW, Kieran's first name was Thomas. The paper was in error recording it as Robert.

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:48 am

Thanks Harry....... interesting

Nadzieja · Post by **Nadzieja** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:49 am

Thanks so much for the answer Harry. I'm curious, what did they do with evidence back then when a trial was completed? Did they store it in warehouses like they do now, or do you think it was disposed of?

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:26 am

When, and if, the couch was ever returned to the Borden sisters I am not sure. Perhaps someone else knows what happened to it. I certainly wouldn't want it.

Lizzie's attorney Jennings took many of the items submitted as evidence at the trial which became the famous "hip bath" collection. Thank goodness the one and only known copy of the Preliminary proceedings (in 5 volumes, not in testimony order) was included in that collection. In May 1968 a portion of that collection was turned over to the Fall River Historical Society.

Barbara Ashton's chapter in the book "Proceedings" details the collection. There is no mention of the sofa.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:29 am

Digging deeeep into the archives, going all the way back to June 2002, I find we had a lengthy discussion of the bloody sofa. At least it started out about the sofa. Like most of the threads in the forum it wanders off in multiple directions.

http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Archi ... odsofa.htm

I call attention to message #5, by Doug, who cites this Rebello reference:

"The sofa was taken later to Central Police Station and to the court house in New Bedford for the trial. It was returned to the guard room at the police station after the trial. The sofa was delivered to the Borden home on Thursday, June 22, 1893."

The source for this appears to be the New Bedford Evening Journal dated June 23, 1893.

It was reported that the "girls" took very few items to Maplecroft with most of the furniture being put in storage. It was later said that the storage place was destroyed in a hurricane. See message #19 in that same thread by Susan.

Nadzieja · Post by **Nadzieja** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:36 pm

Harry, Thank you so much for taking the time to dig deeep into the archives. I just find these facts so interesting and it makes the case more alive and real, not just something from a long time ago.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:33 am

I didn't check the link yet, as I'm trying to catch up here. But thank you so much for the search, Har!

I did read (probably in the paper) that the evidence was in a trunk at the police station awaiting the Bordens to come and get it, after the trial. The implication was that they did not.
If I find the citation again, I will let you know.

(In reply to):

Thanks so much for the answer Harry. I'm curious, what did they do with evidence back then when a trial was completed? Did they store it in warehouses like they do now, or do you think it was disposed of?

--Nadzieja