Abby Crime Scene Photo - carpet cut out

dalcanton · Post by **dalcanton** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:19 pm

I've heard that there was a crime scene photo taken that shows part of the guest room carpet cut out. Does anyone have a link to it? I can't seem to find it. Also, I understand that swatches of carpet from both the guest room & the sitting room were presented at trial. Do they still exist? Are there pictures of them?

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:06 pm

I have personally never seen a photo of the guest room with any carpet removed. I have seen only three photos of the guest room and two of those photos show Abby's body still on the floor, one with her feet facing the camera with the bed in the room and one of her side profile with the bed removed (a reflection of the photographer's camera can be seen in the mirror).

Maybe Shelley know's of photos showing carpet removed.

-1bigsteve (o:

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:12 pm

I have only heard this was done, I never have seen any photos of it.

SteveS. · Post by **SteveS.** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:29 pm

I believe it was Kat that had originaly posted a photo with the carpet removed.

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:46 pm

Thanks for the photo, Steve. I have never seen this one before. I have added it to my collection. Thanks again!

-1bigsteve (o:

SteveS. · Post by **SteveS.** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:28 pm

You are very welcome Steve. Glad to have helped.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:16 am

Thank you Steve! I was on my laptop and knew that photo to be stored on my main computer! Thanks again!
They have this photo at the FRHS, but that's not where I got it. They have pictures you've all not seen and maybe they will be in the upcoming book!

As for the question about where is this evidence?- the Hip-bath Collection donated to the FRHS did not contain the carpet samples, or at least they were not itemized on Barbara Ashton's list of the items donated.
Have you read that, in Proceedings?

That segment is in the Privy, on the first page at the bottom.

andrea · Post by **andrea** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:14 pm

Thank you SteveS (and Kat) for posting this photo! I always pictured a smaller section of the carpet being cut out for some reason. I wonder if Emma had new carpet put in that room at some point before she and Lizzie moved...

Fargo · Post by **Fargo** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:19 am

Does anyone know when that picture of the guestroom with the carpet removed was taken? Why it was taken? Who it was taken by ?

I am just wondering the reason for it.

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:57 pm

Fargo @ Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:19 am wrote:Does anyone know when that picture of the guestroom with the carpet removed was taken? Why it was taken? Who it was taken by ?

I am just wondering the reason for it.

I was wondering the same thing.

-1bigsteve (o:

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:46 pm

Thanks for posting this photo, Steve! I have not seen this one before, so I'm delighted that I now have it in my collection.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:54 am

A piece of the guest room carpet, amongst other items, was given to Prof. Wood. Here's the testimony from the Trial (p998, Volume 1):

"Q. Did you receive anything then, or did you make some examination yourself?
A. Well, on the 10th of August, in the morning, I did go to the Borden house, and made a very superficial examination, which was of no practical importance.

Q. You afterwards went again?
A. No, sir, I never went after that. On the morning of the 10th of August I received at the police station in Fall River from Dr. Dolan, that trunk, containing a large number of substances.

Q. Won't you state what they were that you received?
A. I received from Dr. Dolan in that trunk the claw hammer hatchet,---that large hatchet which has been known as the claw hammer hatchet: those two axes which have been already seen: the blue dress skirt ---

Q. Those two hatchets, you mean?
A. No, sir, the claw hammer hatchet and the two axes.

Q. Oh, yes, I beg your pardon: and those two axes?
A. Those two axes, yes, sir: the blue dress skirt and the blue dress waist, the white skirt which is there (garments referred to being exhibited by counsel as the witness named them): the carpet, the sitting room carpet, which is this (holding it up): the bedroom carpet, which is done up in the paper, and ...."

I cut off the ending of the answer. Beginning on page 1005 Prof. Wood describes the tests he did on the carpets.

I assume the photo was taken by Walsh. But in this case it's not wise to assume.

It was not one of the items submitted to the jury during their deliberations.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:33 am

The Kieran floorplan of the second floor shows a dotted line around the area where someone used chalk to outline where the carpet had been cut out.
That, and the fact that the picture was also taken, makes one think this is somehow important.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:43 am

There is another picture of the guest room that we never see: that one has no camera reflected in the mirror, yet the perspective is from the doorway.

That shows the bed and bureau, but also that the carpet seems threadbare and worn thin at the threshold, and just inside the doorway a patched piece that is distinct from the patterned carpet- which appears to run the wrong direction from the carpet pattern.

In the photo of the sitting room that I usually call "Without Sofa," there looks to be another area of carpet cut out, where the blood pooled under Andrew's upper body from his head, on the carpet beneath. That picture was Exhibit #30.

dalcanton · Post by **dalcanton** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:59 pm

Thanks, SteveS - I never saw that photo before! Hoping that more unseen photos are shown in the upcoming LB book.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:21 am

The dotted lines on the floorplan show a bit under the bed and a bit under the bureau was part of the whole piece of carpet that was taken out- it seems more area was from under the bed, tho

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:29 am

BTW: It is very interesting to note that the guest room carpet was poorley pieced when installed. One can see that at the east wall at the head of the bed in the most clear picture of the body of Abby with the bed removed.
And to now know how threadbare parts of the carpet were in there and that patched piece near the doorway. One would think a guest would have a nicer-appearing accomodation. Maybe Mrs. Borden kept a throw carpet over the balder spot? I would! Suppose something like that were missing?

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:09 pm

Thanks so much for posting the photo, Steve S. I had never heard of it before, but I had heard a piece of carpet was cut out for testing. I had no idea it was such a huge piece! And to have a photo of it - it's just great!

Thanks for taking the time to put in the trial testimony relating to it, Harry.

Thanks for the bits of history you posted, Kat. OMG - you spooked me with your last post here. Yup, I sure would have had a small throw rug to cover up the bald spot on the guest room carpeting. If Abby didn't care, I feel that 'the girls' would for the visitors they received up there. And to think if there was one, and it was missing ...