Daylight robbery

[LABRhush]

Hey everyone! Do we know what month the daylight robbery happened? I know it was 1891. I was wondering if something happened just before to make Lizzie want to get back at her stepmother this way.... presuming it was her. I believe it was. I also think it's interesting that Emma and Bridget were there and that it happened while the elder Bordens were at Swansea. (I believe....)

[twinsrwe]

Hi Becky. I think the following information will answer your questions, except for what may have occurred prior to the robbery.

Rebello, page 35

Robbery at the Borden home, June 24 1891. A lady's gold watch with a chain and locket, a red Russia[n] leather pocketbook with a lock of hair, horse car tickets and a small sum of money were missing. Mr. and Mts. Borden were at the Swansea farm at the time of the robbery. Emma, Lizzie ang Bridget were in the house at the time of the robbery. (Trial: 378)

Rebello, page 36:
“…
There had been a series of robberies in Fall River just preceding this, and a young man was finally tripped up with a lot of sized keys in his possession, but there seems to have been something distinctive about this theft that did not indicate an expert.
Mr. Borden was a director in the street railway company, and the tickets stolen were those issued only to directors. Consequently, being of such limited issue, it was comparatively easy to trace the thief the minute the tickets were presented. The amount of money taken was not large.
A watch was kept on the street cars for several weeks, but just what the detective's work disclosed will not be known before the trial, for suddenly, Mr. Borden told the officers to drop the case. It is said, however, that the tickets were traced to some person.
It does not appear that anything else was taken from the house at this time, nor were any other of the houses in that neighborhood robbed.” - Fall River Daily Herald, May 26, 1893: 7.


Rebello, page 36:

“Chief Hilliard [allegedly] told the members of the grand jury why it was the mysterious burglar who stole Mrs. Borden’s watch …The chief said he was satisfied that Lizzie committed the theft, and went on to say how he convinced Mr. Borden that such was the case. All the articles stolen at that time were Mrs. Borden and included, beside the watch and money, a quantity of free horse tickets. A number of persons were found presenting free tickets who were not entitled to them. The police asked them where they secured these little paste4boards. They said Lizzie Borden gave them to them. Lizzie had never had any of these tickets until after the theft from Mrs. Borden, so Mr. Borden requested that there be no further investigation."… The New Bedford Evening Standard, Tuesday November 22, 1892: 4

[patsy]

Taking something so personal as the red pocketbook with the lock of hair does seem strange enough to cause us to think that Lizzie was most capable, because it seemed to some people that she had a grudge against her stepmother. I think a lot us assume that it belonged to Mrs. Borden, but I wonder if it was ever stated that it did belong to her. Could we think that it may have been something Andrew was saving from his Sarah.

[twinsrwe]

Ohhhhh, good point, Patsy! As far as I know it has always been assumed the pocketbook belonged to Abby, but as far as I know, nowhere is it actually stated that it belonged to her. I think it is high probable that actually belonged to Sarah. Could the lock of hair been from Sarah's head?

[LABRhush]

Thanks Twins! That was EXACTLY what I needed. The hair is interesting, Patsy. I can def see that if it was Sarah's, Lizzie would not be accepting of it being kept with Abby's belongings. I think she'd find that insulting to her mother's memory.

[kwest919]

What happened to the items stolen?
Where they ever recovered?
After the murders when the police thoroughly searched the house... did they find any of the items? You would think that they would have been recovered if as some think Lizzie took them. Maybe hidden in the bottom of the wardrobe closet or in a box within her room. But we never hear of anything being found. Which is odd. Plus you never hear anything of the item's possibly being pawned.
My other thought... why does everyone always put the blame on Lizzie instead of even considering that Emma might have taken the items. If the red pocketbook which contained the strands of hair was possibly that of Sarah's. Then I would think that it would have at that point been Emma who took it. She was the one that would remember her mother more and actually want something of hers.

[LABRhush]

Interesting. I believe Emma def knew it happened, at very least. Horse car tickets related to the robbery did surface some time after. When the plp were asked where they got the tickets, they said Lizzie had given them to them. Interesting to wonder what happened to the other objects.

[patsy]

It would be exciting if some of the other objects turned up. Now I'll forever wonder to whom that lock of hair belonged. Interesting about the tickets turning up and people saying Lizzie gave them. Maybe there were two Lizzies somewhat like Poe's William Wilson.

[kwest919]

LABRhush,
I definately agree with you that Emma knew what happened. In all of this I feel she's not as innocent as she appears to be, Personally, I think her outwardly appearance to Andrew and Abby and the outside world was not actually the person she truly was when she felt she was being slighted. There are some days that I feel she actually took the stuff and let Lizzie be accused of it.

My reasoning being... When you have one child in the house who is meek and mild and seems to follow all the rules without questioning.. then you have another.. who is loud, has opinions and wants to experience life and doesn't always follow ones directions without questioning or making a stink about it. Then between the two. Which one would the parent be apt to jump to blame?
Yes the one they consider unruly. Is usually the one tagged for the offense. Because hey... for the other it would just be so out of her character. Look at her she's meek, agreeable, god fearing like a little mouse who sits quietly in the corner, the one who never seems to get notice, but she sees and hears all. She was such a good little girl in helping raise her sister when Andrew needed her... the little mother. How could anyone think that Emma could ever contemplate doing such a thing?
Think again...

[LABRhush]

I agree, Kwest. Emma seems to be looked back on like sweet wallpaper, just going along and blending in, but I think she was a lot more involved with things. She never called Abby mother. She never came close to accepting her as one. She was just as angry about the 4th street deal, if not more. Emma herself made it no secret she cared even less for Abby than Lizzie did. I think you're right. They had different personalitys and presented themselves from those different places, but that doesn't make Emma some wilting wallflower. Introverted doesn't mean "the good one" anymore than extroverted means "the bad one".

[kwest919]

Exactly LABRhush …
Emma was what 15 when Andrew and Abby married. Lizzie was 5. Emma prior to this had the run of raising Lizzie. Now with Abby about that ends.
Lets for arguments sake give Abby the benefit of at least making or trying to make an effort to get to know Emma and be some kind of mother to her. But Emma being of an age that she now doesn't need a mother really and specially not Abby.. who she might feel is trying to usurp her in Lizzie's life. How dare she. So here we have a sullen 15 year old who doesn't like the new stepmother and at this point might just be silently making life miserable for all and quietly under minding Abby with Lizzie.

So.. the solution. Andrew.. let's send her off to Wheaton. The girl would do good to be around other's her age and get an education. WOW.... what message is this sending to Emma. Your not needed anymore so off you go. 18 months isn't long.. but it's long enough.. and for what ever reason. After the 18 months Emma now returns home. Really not going anywhere. Staying close to the house. Was it because she was reintegrating her self with Lizzie. Making herself indispensable in Linzie's life?
To do so and not be sent away again. Emma would have to play by the house rules. Be the quite go with the flow don't make any vocal protest of not liking how things are being done. UNTIL.. the property purchase and transfer of said property to Abby. I think it was Emma who was like you stated more upset over it and Lizzie being the loyal younger sister stood up with Emma about it. Here's the thing though. I think after Andrew made good with giving the girls their own property.. Lizzie might have been satisfied. But I don't think Emma was and it festered. after the girls sold it back to Andrew for a hefty profit.
Emma was the one who knew about Uncle John's previous business visits with Andrew. Not Lizzie. the only way she would know about them is if Emma told her. john states Lizzie wasn't around when he was there during those visits within the last year or so. The ones prior to August 3rd. But he and Emma did correspond. So... I think Emma was not innocent in any of it. I think she had reached her last straw and the shit started to hit the fan.
My other thing is. why if Emma stayed about the house all the time, really not venturing out at all to spend really anytime visiting people. UNTIL the two week prior to the murders??? Why?? Why then? Why when most of the police force would be out of town? What was it that really set her off? Didn't the pigeon incident occurred several months prior. And why did Uncle John just happen to show up at that time? Hmmmm…. suspicious.

[Lee]

I think both Emma and Lizzie were in the bedroom ransacking the place. Bridgit was in the house so she knew what they were doing. her room was above the elder Bordens and the kitchen was below it. She KNEW.
Any of the items show up in Lizzies will?
the horse car tickets....were they dumb or were these stolen and given away knowing they could be traced? what was the message of the robbery? to Mr Borden give us what were are entitled to or we will steal it.? you can't hide any secret deals from us. ?to Mrs Borden --we hate you and want to hurt you. you deserve nothing? the whole thing reeks of disrespect and INTIMIDATION.