Lizzie & Andrews talk in dining room

[camgarsky4]

Below is Bridget's PH testimony of the brief conversation between Lizzie and Andrew immediately after Andrew got home from his August 4th walk. Upon entering the house, he had walked straight to the Dining Room and looked at some papers. Lizzie joined him shortly after he got there and had the chat below.

Preliminary Hearing. Bridget testimony Page 20
Q. When she (Lizzie) came down, what room did she come into from the front hall?
A. In the sitting room where I was; then she went into the dining room.
Q. That is where Mr. Borden was?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you hear her say anything to Mr. Borden?
A. I heard her ask him if he had any mail for her. I heard her telling her father very slowly that her mother got a note, that Mrs. Borden had a note that morning, and had gone out.
Q. You heard her telling that very slowly?
Page 21
A. Yes Sir, to her father.
Q. Had got a note?
A. From some sick person. Of course the conversation was very low, I did not pay any attention to it; but I heard her telling her father that.
Q. What else did you hear her say to her father?
A. Not any more.

Bridget only appears to hear Lizzies side of the conversation....apparently Andrew talked softly or his voice was directed away from the doorway.

Below I've added potential comments from Andrew and placed them between the comments Bridget heard Lizzie say:
Lizzie goes into the Dining room via the front hall & sitting room, joining Andrew.
(Lizzie) Father, did I get any mail?
(Andrew) No, nothing for you, but I did put your letter to Emma in the post. Where is Abby?
(Lizzie) Mrs.Borden got a note this morning from a sick person and has gone out to visit them.
(Andrew) Oh...well, Uncle John is coming for lunch and hopefully Abby let Bridget know to plan accordingly.

Andrew then goes into sitting room to get the key to his bedroom and Lizzie goes back into front hall and upstairs. Bridget only saw Andrew go to the fireplace mantel (she must have glanced to her left as she cleaned the window), but since her back was turned away from interior of house, she did not she Lizzie exit the dining room and go back into the front hall from whence she returned in 5-10 minutes.

The reason I think playing out that conversation is important is deciding if that is when Lizzie learned Uncle John would be at the house shortly and, I believe, drastically altered and accelerated her plans for the day and Andrew in particular.

Would appreciate any thoughts or alternative scenarios.......

[Lizzie A.B. MA]

I think it could have been the way miss Sullivan, put it here. this conversation is with one of the points for me that a Seitz tell me, lizzie had not even had the thought to kill her beloved father since this conversation war's calm. But what it with lizzies answer where Abby is about it, I am not quite clear yet, because... Why would she have told this too before also miss Sullivan, if this not carresponds to the truth. Again, this conversation might have been a qureel between Mr. Borden and lizzie and the Quiet conversation had Been lying on the part of Mrs. Sullivan to prevent the suspicion of the murder.
Maybe it's about Mr. Bordens Testament again lizzie lizzies please chance this or about the alleges quarrel of the pervious evening of her phater, and her uncle John. Since he wanted to appear again for lunch. This is a part, I could imagine as an alternative conversation.
But I can't be at all pleased with the thought that lizzie should, have been Guilty. In my opinion. There, are many against factors that indicate that she is innocent.
LA. Borden Kersting

[twinsrwe]

Hello Lizzie A.B. MA, welcome to the forum. You make some good points, here. I'm interested to see what other beliefs you have.

[camgarsky4]

Random, abstract thought on Bridget......she went out Wednesday night with a friend, got home 10pmish and had a head/tummy ache the next morning. Any chance she had a few adult beverages (Guinness anyone?) the night before and was experiencing a little hangover? Probably zero related to the murders, but sort of amusing. Adds a bit of the 'human factor'.

On a related note, can't find in her testimony, but do we know if the friend she was with, who lived on 3rd St, was male or female? I've presumed female, but does anyone know different?

[Lizzie A.B. MA]

@camgarsky4 this is actually an interesting thought corridor. Well, on this question I also do not really continue you it was commented, a nighbour and friend of Bridget have seen her in the morning of the morde, at the window cleaning and have a short, conversation with this wheater there is a connection, let's put it here. This person war's a woman.

[phineas]

Camgarsky, thank you for posting your thoughts on reconstructing Andrew’s part of that conversation. I’ve never considered this idea...could his replies have changed her plans even more radically? What if he was never intended to die? But the presence of John Morse coming for lunch threw her off? She was trying to coax Bridget out of the house with the Sargent sale. She wanted to empty the house. Could Bridget has misheard and instead Lizzie said I had a note, someone is sick and I’m going out, knowing that Andrew was going to nap. Perhaps she thought (not knowing about forensics) that Abby would not be found until much later giving her an alibi? Even if he went to his room - thr only logical place aside from downstairs - it would be via the back stairs so he would not see her. He may have gone out himself later, delaying discovery even later. So that would make an intruder concept far more plausible.

What if she’d been cleaned up and perfect to go out (hat on the table) and had to improvise suddenly? I’ve always wondered about the huge time gap - it’s inelegant to wait so long. She could so easily have done it at night and Bridget would never have heard.

[camgarsky4]

Keeping on the theme of chats that morning, Lizzie's inquest testimony is that she had a single 'drive by' talk with Abby in the dining room, as Lizzie made her way to the kitchen. Bridget collaborates that they had some civil interaction, but she didn't catch any of what was said.

Here are the topics that Lizzie testified were covered:
1) Abby checked on how Lizzie was feeling and what type of meat she would like for lunch
2) Abby let Lizzie know she had tidied up the guest bedroom and still needed to put shams on the pillows
3) Abby had received a note from a sick friend that morning and she was planning to visit this friend.
4) Tossed in were comments about Abby's dress, upcoming visit by a friend of Abby and the weather.

That is a pretty robust conversation. Funny thing is that (per Lizzie) Andrew was 10 steps away in the sitting room and Bridget was 10 steps away in the kitchen. It is ridiculous to believe that Abby would randomly tell her dear (sarcasm alert) step daughter, Lizzie, about the sick friend she was going to visit and not mention to either Andrew or Bridget. Bridget testified she didn't know until Lizzie told her in the kitchen over an hour later and, at roughly the same time, Bridget overheard Lizzie telling Andrew about the note.

My sense is that the guest bedroom was the only topic that the two ladies talked about that morning. And you sort of wonder if part of the conversation wasn't Abby letting Lizzie know she did her a favor by tidying up that room (I don't believe a friend of Abby's was visiting the next Monday).

Regarding the note, in my opinion, it is a total fabrication on Lizzie's part.