I'm new here, so if this question has been asked before, please forgive me.
I frequent another online forum where a discussion of Lizzie Borden came up, and someone posted that he had lived in Fall River in his youth and was terrified of the 2nd Street house because of "what went on in the basement." When quizzed about the basement, he said that the Elizabeth Montgomery movie portrayed Andrew Borden as a mortician who ran his business out of the basement, and this had traumatized Lizzie at an early age.
I did a lot of reading about the Borden case when I was a teenager (lo, these many years ago!) and don't remember anything about Andrew being involved in the mortuary business (beyond the fact that his furniture company also dealt in caskets), much less him running a mortuary out of the family basement.
Is this simply a Hollywood invention, or is my memory playing me false?
Thanks for your help.
Question re: facts v. movie
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mrsmig
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Little Lizzie
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Well, Andrew was a mortician (or undertaker if you prefer that name) but I am not sure he did the business in basement or even his home.
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mrsmig
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Thanks. I always thought he was in the furniture business from about age 22 until he retired in his fifties.Little Lizzie @ Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:29 am wrote:Well, Andrew was a mortician (or undertaker if you prefer that name) but I am not sure he did the business in basement or even his home.
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Little Lizzie
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Kat
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Hello!
Do you have Len Rebello's book, Lizzie Borden Past & Present? See page 51-55.
He says Borden and Almy were in the furniture business (1845) and gives a transcription of an ad. They would also provide the funeral accoutrements, like caskets and viewing room, and chairs for seating -things like that (1846). There is no proof Andrew Borden was a mortician, which we think of as an embalmer, which the character was portrayed as in that movie.
We also hear that Andrew, as a mortician, cut the legs off of corpses to save money stuffing the body into a too-small coffin. But we never hear this about Mr. Almy! If it were true of Andrew, so must it be true of Almy- but never a word said against Almy!
Do you have Len Rebello's book, Lizzie Borden Past & Present? See page 51-55.
He says Borden and Almy were in the furniture business (1845) and gives a transcription of an ad. They would also provide the funeral accoutrements, like caskets and viewing room, and chairs for seating -things like that (1846). There is no proof Andrew Borden was a mortician, which we think of as an embalmer, which the character was portrayed as in that movie.
We also hear that Andrew, as a mortician, cut the legs off of corpses to save money stuffing the body into a too-small coffin. But we never hear this about Mr. Almy! If it were true of Andrew, so must it be true of Almy- but never a word said against Almy!
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Richard
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Andrew as undertaker in the Liz Montgomery Movie
From what I recall (I saw the movie a few months ago), Andrew is preparing a body for burial in the basement of the Borden house. I don't think he ever did this in real life. His business with Mr. Almy included casket making but he never had an undertaker business at his home. The scene in the film had a fetishistic quality to it, almost Andrew was a necrophiliac. He tried to get young Lizzie to touch the dead body so she wouldn't be afraid of it, but it made him look disturbed (who would try to force a young girl to touch a dead body if she were afraid?). All these implied incest and necrophilia bits in the film were designed to make us feel uncomfortable with andrew and to help us deal with Lizzie killing him later in the film. That's a typical Hollywood manipulation.
I also noticed that at the time Lizzie was the age she is depicted in the film, they wouldn't have been living at the 2nd Street house. I believe the family moved there when Lizzie was in high school.
I also noticed that at the time Lizzie was the age she is depicted in the film, they wouldn't have been living at the 2nd Street house. I believe the family moved there when Lizzie was in high school.
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Edisto
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Welcome! If you don't mind telling us, what's the "other forum" where the Borden case is being discussed? Just the fact that two grisly murders were committed at 92 Second Street ought to be enough to creep anyone out without resorting to stories about embalming in the basement!
Unless you're a true Bordenite, you may not have Len Rebello's book (which IMHO is the very best one to own if you're interested in the case). Anyhoo, I agree with Kat that we don't have any evidence that Andrew actually embalmed any bodies, and we certainly don't have any evidence that he carried out such a trade in the basement at 92 Second Street. As is often the case, those who made the movie probably took a few liberties with the facts in an effort to juice up the story. It's such a fascinating story on its own that I wonder why they bothered. The movie also hints at some sort of incestuous relationship between Lizzie and her father, but there's no evidence of that either. You might have noticed that the movie completely eliminates a major character in the Borden saga, Uncle John Morse. There are numerous other departures from fact as well.
Unless you're a true Bordenite, you may not have Len Rebello's book (which IMHO is the very best one to own if you're interested in the case). Anyhoo, I agree with Kat that we don't have any evidence that Andrew actually embalmed any bodies, and we certainly don't have any evidence that he carried out such a trade in the basement at 92 Second Street. As is often the case, those who made the movie probably took a few liberties with the facts in an effort to juice up the story. It's such a fascinating story on its own that I wonder why they bothered. The movie also hints at some sort of incestuous relationship between Lizzie and her father, but there's no evidence of that either. You might have noticed that the movie completely eliminates a major character in the Borden saga, Uncle John Morse. There are numerous other departures from fact as well.
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mrsmig
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Thank you all for the thoughtful replies. The subject came up (very peripherally) at the sondheim.com website, which is devoted to the works of musical theatre composer Stephen Sondheim.
It has been many years since I've read anything about the Borden murders. My bible on it when I was a teenagers was Edward Radin's "Lizzie Borden: The Untold Story." I was convinced after reading it that he was right and Bridget was the killer, but as I've grown older I've begun to doubt some of his conclusions. If I can track down a copy of the Rebello book, I will definitely give it a read - thanks for the recommendation!
It has been many years since I've read anything about the Borden murders. My bible on it when I was a teenagers was Edward Radin's "Lizzie Borden: The Untold Story." I was convinced after reading it that he was right and Bridget was the killer, but as I've grown older I've begun to doubt some of his conclusions. If I can track down a copy of the Rebello book, I will definitely give it a read - thanks for the recommendation!