Pears for Eggs?

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:57 am

Kat, when reading your lovely article on Luther's Corner, you mention that Morse traded pears for eggs at the Swansea fahm. I don't think I've ever read that before. I've only read that he went out there to collect Andrew's eggs. I'm sure you're right. Can you tell me where it's mentioned?

Tina-Kate · Post by **Tina-Kate** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:56 am

It's somewhere in either Morse's testimonies or newspaper articles. I'm thinking perhaps Prelim.

Abby gave Morse a basket of pears to take to the farm for the men. I don't think it was a "trade" as such...just a gesture.

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:41 pm

Thanks, Tina-Kate. It just caught my eye as an interesting little detail.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:46 am

I don't know about Mrs. Borden, but here is the source of the *trade* of pears for eggs by Morse at the farm (my terminology). It seems the only thing Morse accomplished by even going to Swansea that day. I'm including more than needed- the whole statement by Eddy:

Witness Statements, pp36,37

GEORGE F. SEAVER

August 11, 1892.

Early Thursday morning, Aug. 11, went to Luther’s Corners, Swansea, with Marshal Hilliard, to the farm owned by the late Andrew J. Borden, and had an interview with Frederick Eddy and Alfred C. Johnson, who have been employed on that place, Mr. Eddy for sixteen years, and Johnson for nine.

Frederick Eddy made the following statement. “John V. Morse came over to this house Wednesday evening Aug. 3, between seven and eight o’clock. He drove a horse and top buggy; said it was a stable team. He came in the house and brought a rattan basket, took out three pears and laid on the table, said he brought them over from the Borden house. He said Mr. Borden sent him over to see how I was, and get the eggs. Said Mr. Borden was coming with him, but he, his wife and Lizzie were taken sick last night, and he couldn’t come. He said he stopped to supper at Mr. Vinnecum’s, who lives a short distance from here. I said to him, after he got his eggs, “how about the oxen Mr. Davis of South Dartmouth was to have to use?” “I am going back and see Mr. Borden, and think we will make arrangements to get them back over Saturday morning”, was the reply. Mr. Morse stayed here perhaps ten or fifteen minutes. Since hearing of the murder, it has seemed to me a singular coincidence that he should have come over that night for the eggs, for, had he not, I should have taken the train and gone to Mr. Borden’s Thursday morning, arriving at the house about quarter to eleven or eleven. I have seen axes and hatchets at Mr. Borden’s. The large hatchet was comparatively new. When it was bought, it was brought over here, and ground sharp. After being ground, Mr. Borden was here, and it was
carried out and put on the wall by the gate for him to carry home. When he went away be said, I wont take the hatchet. You’ll be coming over in a day or two, and you bring it over; which I did. I did not use axes or hatchets at Mr. Borden’s, as a Sweden, Andrew Johnson, went to Mr. Borden’s when he was not busy here, and did all the work, cutting the wood, cleaning up the yard etc. When I go to Fall River with hay or anything for market, I have always been in the habit of going to Mr. Borden’s house to dinner. Sometimes I have eaten dinner with them; often I have not got there until after they were through dinner.

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:10 pm

Thanks for the post, Kat! What is it with these people and "three pears"?

I took your word "trade" in your article literally. I still never knew that Morse took pears over there. Something else to add to the list of Morse-isms.

I thought Morse took like a buckboard over to Swansea. I remember a long time ago, we talked about maybe Andrew's butt was sore, and the wagon would have been too harsh on his bum. "He drove a horse and top buggy ..." That has me thinking of a cushioned seat.

Tina-Kate · Post by **Tina-Kate** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:24 am

I'm quite sure somewhere there is a quote/story from Morse that Abby gave him the pears to take to the men. (Unfortunately I'm at work & away from my piles of stuff).

I'm sure I compared the stories & I seem to recall noting a discrepancy between how many pears Abby gave JVM & how many ended up there according to Mr Eddy...& it seemed to me JVM snacked en route.

I think JVM's version is in Prelim, which I can no longer access as it was on my MAC. Either that or one of the newspaper reports.

It's frustrating not having everything at your fingertips...

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:00 am

Somehow I can't imagine Uncle Morse bringing pears over on his own. It sounds very much something like Mrs. Borden would do. There were pears all over the place and it must have seemed such a waste to throw them out.

Besides how much room could have there been under the barn?

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:05 am

That's very true, Harry. It does sound right in character with Abby - or at least what we know of her.

TK - That was funny! Morse snacking enroute. That sounds right in his character, too.

I still don't understand what "under the barn" meant. Did they find remnants of a garbage pit when they built the new barn?

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:15 am

I think it was Bridget that testified that Andrew would throw the old pears "under the barn".

I've never been able to figure that one out either unless there was an opening in the rear of the barn.

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:23 am

Yes, I have in mind that it came from Bridget. Did the Bordens have a compost heap in their back yard? (Aside from the barf and slop bucket contents?)

I don't think he was fermenting them for pear wine. He must have been throwing garbage under the barn. Maybe there was a trap door in the barn that opened up to throw garbage in. No, that'd be too clean. Someone would have to empty it out every so often. Could there be a place where he dug a hole at the base of the barn to shove garbage in?

I wonder if Lee Ann found stuff like chicken bones and things that would be indicative of an old garbage dump under the barn.

I understand why Lizzie hadn't been out to the barn in so long before August 4 ...

Tina-Kate · Post by **Tina-Kate** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:17 pm

My assumption...or what I've always pictured in my mind's eye is an area at the back of the bahn where there's a difference in the grade of the ground and the base of the structure, leaving a kind of crawl space. And Andy pitching them in under there so as to be sight unseen.

This comes from growing up in Victorians, visiting lots of Victorians & having seen lots of rickety outbuildings. They can lead to endless creative uses by children & animals...

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:50 pm

I would have thought the frugal Andrew would have had Bridget whip up some pear jelly, pear jam, pear conserve, pear chutney, pear tarts, pies- or something rather than pitch ripe fruit away. Spiced pears is a nice way to conserve the fruit using brandy and cloves. Of course, I bet brandy was in short supply at #92!

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:55 pm

TK - By jove, I think you've got it. It has to be. It was put in such a way, by I agree with Harry in believing Bridget said it, it was hard to figure out what she meant.

Do you think this was purposely a place to put garbage then? Wouldn't it attract rodents - rats, etc.? Would it ever fill up to where they'd have to empty it?

Tina-Kate, I was reading your bio in The Hatchet last night, and saw that you live in a Victorian house! Have you posted any pictures of it on the Forum? Can you, if you haven't already? That would be great!

Did your house need a lot of work?

Tina-Kate · Post by **Tina-Kate** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:38 pm

augusta @ Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:55 pm wrote:Tina-Kate, I was reading your bio in The Hatchet last night, and saw that you live in a Victorian house! Have you posted any pictures of it on the Forum? Can you, if you haven't already? That would be great! Did your house need a lot of work?

I live in a second empire style 1880s mansion.

I posted pix when I 1st moved back here. The thread was called something like "My Little Maplecroft". I've scoured the archives & can't find it. If you like I can scan some pix in tomorrow.

I moved in with all good intentions of fixing the place up, but the landlords (currently 94 yrs old with wife in late 80s) have absolutely no interest. I had no intention of sinking any money into someone else's house. I did do certain repairs I needed to make it livable. It could be gorgeous, but it's falling apart. Not as bad as that house in Fairhaven, but getting there. BIG issue with me...

Will end this here so as not to write an essay...

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:16 pm

I've always thought that Bridget was speaking euphemistically about throwing the pears under the barn; meaning that Andrew threw them down the privy in the barn. From the photos that exist of the barn, it appears to have a foundation and is level with the ground. Unless that odd step thing before the side barn door was a hatch of some kind? I would imagine that there was at least a crawl space beneath the barn?

Photos from the LBVM&L site.

Tina-Kate · Post by **Tina-Kate** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:17 pm

augusta @ Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:55 pm wrote:Tina-Kate, I was reading your bio in The Hatchet last night, and saw that you live in a Victorian house! Have you posted any pictures of it on the Forum? Can you, if you haven't already? That would be great! Did your house need a lot of work?

I've posted some pix in The Privy...

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:04 am

I'd be interested to find where it is said Abbie sent the pears to the farm. I had not thought of it before- who provided them. If it's in a book source, I'd like to know...thanks!

It's funny- I was thinking along the lines of Susan- the pears as a euphemism-- in another way- I was wondering if it meant using the barn privy, when LIzzie said she got pears, and when Morse said he got pears...

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:42 am

I don't know that anyone said Abby did give the pears to Morse. We were saying that Abby was probably the one who gave him the pears for the farm workers. Lizzie didn't see Morse on August 3, Emma was gone, Bridget probably didn't have 'the right' to give pears away, and Andrew probably wouldn't have.

Yes, that's exactly what I'd like to know. Was Bridget just tossing that phrase around, meaning in the privy, or was there an actual space of some kind under the barn.

Did Leeanne find evidence of a garbage pit when excavating for the new barn?

THANK YOU for posting the pictures, Tina-Kate! I'll go there now.

Tina-Kate · Post by **Tina-Kate** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:55 am

Kat @ Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:04 am wrote:I'd be interested to find where it is said Abbie sent the pears to the farm. I had not thought of it before- who provided them. If it's in a book source, I'd like to know...thanks!

It's funny- I was thinking along the lines of Susan- the pears as a euphemism-- in another way- I was wondering if it meant using the barn privy, when LIzzie said she got pears, and when Morse said he got pears...

Kat, I will try to find that ref. It's somewhere where Morse is telling about when he arrived on the Wednesday & the events that took place. It may be the same place he quotes Abby asking if he'd eaten lunch & that it wouldn't be any trouble for her to fix him some.

Off the cuff I am thinking either Prelim, Witness Statements or a newspaper interview.

I will hunt around, tho it may take me a while. I don't think I can check Prelim, however, as it is on my old MAC hard drive & I never kept a hard copy.

Lee-ann · Post by **Lee-ann** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:28 pm

I didn't find anything 'under' the barn, but I dug out plenty of potery, bones and pumkin seeds from the outhouse.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:49 am

Pumpkin seeds!

You must have been using a sifting screen!

So where are all the pumpkins that should have grown up back there?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:51 am

Sherry, I mean *getting pears* back there as an euphemism (you made me spell it twice! Yikes!) for actually *using the privy* in the barn for what people use privys for.

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:09 am

Wow, Lee-Ann, pumpkin seeds, but, no pear seeds? Hmmm, unless they were a variety of seedless pears? I recall the pics of your privy excavation, quite a few interesting finds. Now could you imagine if you had unearthed the buried box of the Borden's bloody clothing and that they were relatively intact?