Felix Borden?

[snokkums]

I was reading thru the archives, some of the old post and came across the one titled: "Felix borden in Baltimore".

It goes on to state that this lady who had a broading house in Baltimore had a boy come stay at the house right before the murders. He said his name was Felix Borden and he was the adopted son of Lizzie's uncle. Is he refering to Uncle John V Morse?

Also too, in the post the lady said that the way he talked about the Bordens, that he wasn't to fond of them. And apparently, he left without paying the bill, saying he was going to Massachuetts to get some money.

Just a thought, but maybe he went to see Andy for some money, and there was a fight?

I mean, this might explain some of the witnesses seeing an unfamilar person-boy- outside around the house. Possibly Felix?

But I didn't know Uncle John had any children. Or am I wrong? Never heard of him being married, either.

[Kat]

An adopted son could be anybody, right? He could have been real- if so he might have been adopted age 12, not assuming age 2. But I have read this too- was it in the papers? But a Felix Borden is not one I've come across in genealogy yet.

BTW: If his name was Borden, then he was not adopted by Uncle Morse, or any Morse, right?

[FairhavenGuy]

I think he's one of the ODD BORDENS.

Felix Borden was the neat one.

Oscar Borden was a slob.

[twinsrwe]

... But I have read this too- was it in the papers? ...

Yes, it was in the Manitoba Morning Free Press, Tuesday, June 20, 1893 Page 2.

Here is the thread Snokkums is referring to: http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Archi ... borden.htm

[doug65oh]

That's the best explanation I've heard yet. The only references I've been able to find thus far (in the last few minutes) were these two in ancestry.com :-

Name: Felix Borden
Residence: 1907 - New Bedford, Massachusetts
Massachusetts City Directories

Name: Felix Borden
Residence: 1908 - New Bedford, Massachusetts
Massachusetts City Directories

The claim though might not be terribly reliable. Ha...just as I thought: the two names do appear in the 1907 and 1908 City Directories for New Bedford, Massachusetts - on the same page. That's as far as it goes, however. There's not (I would hope) the slightest chance that anyone would mistake the information on either of those two pages as indicating one person.

So, I'll go with the Fairhaven feller on this one I think.

[Harry]

In addition to the URL cited above there was an article in the New Bedford Evening News dated June 19, 1893. It lists the same basic facts and much additional information. Here it is transcribed:

"New Bedford Evening News, June 19, 1893, 4

Felix Borden Found

He is an Innocent Young Waiter in the
Whitcomb House.

A Baltimore dispatch sent out last night has caused some sensational inquiries as to the whereabouts of a young man named Felix Borden, who was there some months ago and expressed his opinion about Lizzie Borden. A standard reporter learned this morning that Felix was in this city and working in Winship's Whitcomb House cafe on Union street.
His name was first mentioned in the case through the New York World's special from Baltimore.
Mrs. Ramsey, who keeps a boarding house at 333 St. Paul street, says that previous to the Borden murders a boy came from New England and boarded with her. He told her that he was the adopted son of Lizzie Borden's uncle, and that his name was Felix Borden. He said that his parents name was Deroches. From all accounts, he did not live happily with the Bordens, and, as a result of a disagreement with them, he left home suddenly.
Felix told Mrs. Ramsey that his home was in New Bedford or Fall River. He spent his money freely. He did not pay his board bill, and left, saying that he was going to his home in Massachusetts to get some money to settle.
A few days after Felix left, the Borden murders were committed. He returned to Baltimore. On one occasion Mrs. Ramsey spoke to Felix about the murders. She says that he replied:
"Oh, Lizzie did it."
Asked if the young man was ever heard to make any threatening remarks about the Bordens of Massachusetts, Mrs. Ramsey said:
"During the two years Felix lived here he spoke frequently of the Bordens, and, judging from his remarks, I did not think he cared very much for them. He referred, I remember, on one occasion to some old woman up there, and did not speak in very complimentary terms of her. I judge from his remarks that he had had a quarrel with his people before he came here, although he never told me the particulars."
Mrs. Ramsey said the young man was a medium-sized follow, with dark hair, and when he left was 21 years old. His description, it is said, tallies with that given by several witnesses in the Borden trial on Thursday, who said they saw a strange young man at the Borden gate the morning of the murder. Young Borden left Baltimore last fall and has not been heard of here since.
The young man says he is the adopted son of the late Charles T. Borden, a Mansfield druggist, who was distantly related to Andrew J. Borden. For some time he has been traveling as advance agent for Conroy's circus. He was in Provincetown when the circus "busted" and came here and asked for work at the Whitcomb House. He is now a waiter.
Young Borden seems very willing to talk about his career and his acquaintance with the Bordens of Fall River. He says he knew Lizzie and her father only by sight and reputation, and if he told Mrs. Ramsey that Lizzie committed the murders his opinions were formed on the newspaper reports and not from any knowledge of Lizzie's character.
He does not remember of telling the woman that "Lizzie did it," but thinks it is quite probable that he might have made such a remark.
He could not remember either just where he was at the time of the murders because the show business kept him traveling most of the time, but he had an idea that he was in Providence.
Felix is a bright looking youth and speaks with a pleasant kind of a swagger which would lead one to believe that he had "knocked about" considerably in the world. It is said that at one time he studied medicine out west.
Though he quarreled with the man who adopted him he informed the reporter that he was expecting a legacy when Mr. Borden's estate was settled.
He said he could easily ascertain just where he was when the murders occurred by writing to Providence."

Was there a Charles T. Borden distantly related to Andrew?

[Harry]

There is a brief mention of Felix Borden in Mr. Caplain's column "LizBits" in the April 2001 LBQ. He refers to an article in the FR globe dated June 21, 1893. The name of Felix's father is shown as Charles L. not Charles T.

[mbhenty]

The entire Felix connection is certainly topical if not a major/minor link.

In 1892 there were Nine Charles Bordens in Fall River.

One was a:

Sewing machine agent
iceman
restaurant worker (?)
carriage painter
Globe Mill worker (?)
agent for Borden and Remington
clerk for Richard Borden Mills
stonecutter

Out of all these "Charles" two of them were certain to be wealthy and at least one other well to do. In the group there was one Charles L. but no Charles T.

( there were 3 Charles "E" and one Charles A, C, F, L, N, and W.)

[snokkums]

Thanks for the information Harry. as always, you're a wealth of info.

You're right Kat, Felix borden couldn't have be adopted by Uncle morse-- my mistake.

Thats cute Fairhaven guy-- the odd bordens. I like that!

[twinsrwe]

From the New Bedford Evening News report, provided by Harry:

He says he knew Lizzie and her father only by sight and reputation, and if he told Mrs. Ramsey that Lizzie committed the murders his opinions were formed on the newspaper reports and not from any knowledge of Lizzie's character. He does not remember of telling the woman that "Lizzie did it," but thinks it is quite probable that he might have made such a remark.

Formed opinions from newspaper reports, don't hold much water. If he did indeed tell Mrs. Ramsey that Lizzie committed the murders, then he really didn't have a sound reason, let alone any proof, for naming Lizzie as the murderer.

[twinsrwe]

... In 1892 there were Nine Charles Bordens in Fall River. ... In the group there was one Charles L. but no Charles T. ( there were 3 Charles "E" and one Charles A, C, F, L, N, and W.)

'T' sounds an awful lot like 'E' as well as 'C'. Could the newspaper reporter for the New Bedford Evening News have misinterpreted what he had heard and wrote 'T' instead of 'E' or 'C'?

Also, the newspaper report states, The young man says he is the adopted son of the late Charles T. Borden, a Mansfield druggist, who was distantly related to Andrew J. Borden. I wonder if there was a druggist by the name of Charles Borden listed in the Mansfield, MA., censes? I am assuming the reporter is referring to Mansfield, MA. Maybe, it was a different state!

I made an attempt to look up the censes for Mansfield, MA, but found nothing. I'll keep looking though...

[Kat]

Should we be looking in Baltimore and New Bedford?