A lizzie show on the Investigative Discovary channel

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 5:57 am

Don't know if any one gets the ID channel (if you have direct tv you do), but on Dec. 26th, they have a show on Lizzie. It's called Lizzie Borden had an axe. It's on at 7 A.M. I think I have seen it before, but I don't like missing any show on Lizzie.

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:53 pm

I have that channel!

Thanks, Snookums! This sounds like it's the one with our Kat and Stefani who did great, and the OJ detectives who sprayed luminol all over the basement and did not do so great. Gee, wait till you see the one basement wall...

It's the first time I remember seeing that "handkerchief" shown. I thought it was a good show for various reasons. A good one to add to one's Lizzie collection.

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Fri Dec 26, 2008 8:42 am

Yes, it is the one Kat and Stefani are in! I have seen it before. Everytime it's on, I watch it and find out something new, and end up with new questions. Yup, saw the basement wall scene. And they found blood still on the wall!

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:35 am

I got lucky and caught the second half yesterday morning, early. The part about the wall - that so startled me - and the Luminol apparently did not make the final cut of the show - and with good reason.

I was in FR some months after the show was made. I was shown the cellar, and Luminol showed all over this huge section of wall. Unless the St. Valentine's Day Massacre was held there, the wall must have been washed at one time with a detergent or bleach that made the Luminol react.

Sorry, Snookums. I thought perhaps I had seen that on the show itself.

The show did show Luminol's reaction on the wash bowl. But it didn't convince me, anyway, that it was blood from the murders. It could have been from Lizzie's flea-time finery.

Before this show, tho, I hadn't even thought about Andrew's blood coming thru the floorboards of the basement ceiling.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:35 pm

It has been my understanding that Luminol quickly dissipates, so that results cannot be seen after 15 to 30 seconds or so?

The glowing wall I believe was in the show- all the things that glowed were in there to my recollection. (I've only seen it twice on TV.)

Even if those things glowed due to blood, there were plenty of people who lived in that house between 1845 and 2004. Maybe 50 people! But yes I'd think there were other reasons besides blood for the results we saw on the video.
I have a free tape of it- maybe I should watch it again.

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:51 am

To my recollection, they only showed the Luminol reacting a little bit on the wall. I don't recall them showing the huge section of wall that would have made them look like fools.

All I know is, when I went in the basement there were purple "neon-like" showings down there. I was happily surprised that they were still there when I went.

I don't know how long you can see Luminol for. I didn't expect to see it when I did.

Could someone have painted over it, to have it show permanently where it reacted?

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:40 pm

How long was it after the spraying seen in the show that you were in the cellar?

This is a great article on luminol works:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/luminol.htm

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:12 am

When I go to that link, my old laptop in Explorer mode, quits the program. Please is there info there on how long Luminol is visible? Thanks!

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:56 am

Not on that site. I did find this on another one:

"Luminol is made up in alkaline solution (pH 10.4-10.8) using sodium carbonate, and sodium perborate (NaBO3.H2O) rather than hydrogen peroxide is used as the source of the oxidising species. Hydrogen peroxide can be used but yields a shorter-lived luminescence than sodium perborate. The solution is applied as a spray and the presence of blood produces a bluish luminescence which persists for about 45 seconds. The luminescence can be restored by additional spraying but this needs to be done carefully as the stain will lose definition if too much liquid is added to it. The luminescence can be photographed in either black and white or colour but requires some specialised techniques."

http://imhotep.dal.ca/Files/LESSON_PLAN ... _blood.pdf

Another site said that it depends on what caused the luminol to glow. It said it fades fairly quickly when some metals are the cause and it lasts longer with blood.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:44 pm

Thank you Har! That is sort of what I remember when I heard of the short life of the spray recently. It was something I had not known before and I was surprised about it.
Sorry about asking you to Search, but it's appreciated. This 'ole laptop is my tool during the week!

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:54 pm

When was I out there and in the cellar after that show? It was the last time I was out there. I didn't get hurt climbing a fence or rolling down marble stairs this time, which makes it hard to mark the visit. Stef was speaking. I'm going to place this visit as October, maybe 2005? I think it was the same year that Luminol test was done, but after. I was surprised when they told me it was still there, or I could still see it. Kat was there at the house with me and she showed me around the cellar. I was shown where the luminol showed up down there. I am remembering a lilac purple coloring.

I picture things very vividly in my mind. So it is possible that I saw the lilac coloring on the tape, and maybe it was white in the cellar when I went in person? I remember just being floored at all the result they got on that one wall, which could not have been part of the Borden story.

I can't believe the B & B would paint parts of their basement lilac to enshrine those Luminol results forever. White, in preparation for further refinishing, maybe. I don't think it was just outlined down there.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:49 pm

Yes I figured out last night that I was there too, and Harry, and Stefani. I do know you and I went into the middle cellar, back then the office, and looked up at the floorboards from the sitting room above, which made the ceiling. I do think you had a vivid memory from the video.

The segments with Stef and me and Bill and Len were filmed in March, 2004, and the video came out in October 2004, and we met up with you in 2005. I'm not sure when the Luminol part was filmed, but it was between March and October '04, obviously.

Oh! Please see Hatchet issue October/November 2004, Vol 1, Issue 5. Tim Evans, the producer, wrote about the experience, and says very nice things about Stefani and myself!

Lovely man...
"A TV Producer Has an Axe: A Look Behind the Scenes of the Lizzie Borden Special."

Hey, Angel! It is the "Ruby" issue you are ordering!