One of the oddest things Alice Russell said of her presence on the morning of the crimes is in her Inquest statement (p148):
"Q. When did you first learn that they were murdered?
A. I got Lizzie into the dining room, on to the dining room lounge, and we were there, I dont know how long, when her Uncle came in.
Q. That is Morse?
A. Yes Sir. And something he said about their being murdered, and looked up to her, then it dawned on my mind that it was cold blooded murder. That is the first idea that I had that it was murder."
In none of her testimonies was she aware of what time she arrived at the house. She believed Bridget came to her house about 11:15. She changed her dress and went right to the house. Allowing ten minutes at most for this she would have arrived at about 11:25.
Morse testified at the Inquest (p104):
"Q. What time did you get to the Borden house?
A. I think it must be pretty well towards twelve, within 15 or 20 minutes of it, I dont know but it is quite that."
At the Preliminary (p244):
"Q. Have you any idea what time it was when you got home?
A. I think about quarter to 12; I do not know exactly."
Then on page 245:
"Q. Did you see Miss Lizzie when you got there?
A. After I had been in the house two or three minutes, I saw her."
So Morse would have talked with Lizzie about 11:47 or 11:48.
So if Alice was not aware they were murdered until she heard Morse mention it then she was in the house about 20 minutes or so without knowing Andrew and Abby had been murdered.
That's a bit hard to believe.
Alice oblivious
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Harry
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Alice oblivious
I know I ask perfection of a quite imperfect world
And fool enough to think that's what I'll find
And fool enough to think that's what I'll find
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Susan
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Well, from reading through Alice's inquest testimony, I can believe it; she only knew what Bridget had told her.
Inquest, page 147:
Q. She told you Tuesday night they were sick?
A. Yes sir. I stepped to the door, and I says "what is it, Bridget, are they worse", or Maggie. She says, "yes, I don't know but what Mr. Borden is dead." I don't know whether she said "come over". I don't remember what she said. I said "I will come right over as soon as I change my dress; which I did.
Q. She did not tell you how he was killed, or anything of that sort?
A. She did not, no.
Q. She said what?
A. She says "he is worse, I don't know but Mr. Borden is dead."
The thing that is interesting about that is in Bridget's preliminary testimony, and possibly her inquest testimony, she talks as if she is unaware of Andrew being murdered.
From Preliminary 1, page 27:
Q. --- when she called to you. What did she say?
A. She holloed to me. Of course I knew something was the matter, she holloed so loud. I asked her what
was the matter. She said “come down quick”, that her father was dead.
Q. She called your name, Maggie?
A. Yes Sir. I came down, and asked what was the matter, and was going into the sitting room. She told
me to go quick for Dr. Bowen.
and
Q. Did she say anything when you got down stairs?
A. She said “go for Dr. Bowen”. I ran ahead, I did not know what was the matter. She told me to “go
quick and get Dr. Bowen.”
Q. What did you do then?
A. I went right over to Dr. Bowen’s.
But, by the trial her testimony differs:
Trial, volume 1, page 240:
Q. What is the next that occurred as you were lying upon the bed?
A. Miss Lizzie hollered, "Maggie, come down!" I said, "What is the matter?" She says, "Come down quick; Father's dead: somebody came in and killed him."
and
Q. Did you say anthing to her at that time or she to you?
A. I went around to go right in the sitting-room and she says, "Oh, Maggie, don't go in. I have got to have a doctor quick. Go over. I have got to have a doctor." So I went over to Dr. Bowen's right away, when I came back I says, "Miss Lizzie, where was you?" I says, "Didn't I leave the screen door hooked?" She says, "I was out in the back yard and heard a groan, and came in and the screen door was wide open."
So, its one way or the other. Did Bridget know early on that Andrew had been murdered and censored herself when she went to fetch Alice. Or, did she originally not have a clue about the murder until Dr. Bowen told her and she embellished her tale later?
Inquest, page 147:
Q. She told you Tuesday night they were sick?
A. Yes sir. I stepped to the door, and I says "what is it, Bridget, are they worse", or Maggie. She says, "yes, I don't know but what Mr. Borden is dead." I don't know whether she said "come over". I don't remember what she said. I said "I will come right over as soon as I change my dress; which I did.
Q. She did not tell you how he was killed, or anything of that sort?
A. She did not, no.
Q. She said what?
A. She says "he is worse, I don't know but Mr. Borden is dead."
The thing that is interesting about that is in Bridget's preliminary testimony, and possibly her inquest testimony, she talks as if she is unaware of Andrew being murdered.
From Preliminary 1, page 27:
Q. --- when she called to you. What did she say?
A. She holloed to me. Of course I knew something was the matter, she holloed so loud. I asked her what
was the matter. She said “come down quick”, that her father was dead.
Q. She called your name, Maggie?
A. Yes Sir. I came down, and asked what was the matter, and was going into the sitting room. She told
me to go quick for Dr. Bowen.
and
Q. Did she say anything when you got down stairs?
A. She said “go for Dr. Bowen”. I ran ahead, I did not know what was the matter. She told me to “go
quick and get Dr. Bowen.”
Q. What did you do then?
A. I went right over to Dr. Bowen’s.
But, by the trial her testimony differs:
Trial, volume 1, page 240:
Q. What is the next that occurred as you were lying upon the bed?
A. Miss Lizzie hollered, "Maggie, come down!" I said, "What is the matter?" She says, "Come down quick; Father's dead: somebody came in and killed him."
and
Q. Did you say anthing to her at that time or she to you?
A. I went around to go right in the sitting-room and she says, "Oh, Maggie, don't go in. I have got to have a doctor quick. Go over. I have got to have a doctor." So I went over to Dr. Bowen's right away, when I came back I says, "Miss Lizzie, where was you?" I says, "Didn't I leave the screen door hooked?" She says, "I was out in the back yard and heard a groan, and came in and the screen door was wide open."
So, its one way or the other. Did Bridget know early on that Andrew had been murdered and censored herself when she went to fetch Alice. Or, did she originally not have a clue about the murder until Dr. Bowen told her and she embellished her tale later?
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Yooper
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Bridget's question about leaving the back door hooked doesn't make much sense unless an intruder is suspected. Lizzie may have told Bridget that someone came in and killed Andrew after Bridget went to fetch Dr. Bowen, and Bridget transposed parts of conversations.
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augusta
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Bridget was real scared once Lizzie summoned her downstairs. Bridget had a responsibility to lock doors of the Borden house every day - it was probably ground into her head all the time. She might have been wondering if she had indeed locked the screen door, or she might have been trying to figure out how Andrew's murder could possibly have happened. I think she was wondering how an intruder had gotten in. Her asking Lizzie "Where was you?" could have been verbalized because she suspected Lizzie, or that she was just trying to make sense of "how" this happened.
Thanks for all the typing in your posts, Harry and Susan. It's very interesting. I had wondered for years what Bridget meant when she told Alice Russell that and did not say, "The old man! He's been murdered!" Maybe she did not hear Lizzie say "Someone's killed Father". Lizzie did ask her to go get a doctor, and then Miss Russell. If she didn't hear Lizzie say Andrew was dead, she could have not known. Didn't Lizzie say "Father's been hurt" or "stabbed" to someone (to Mrs. Churchill maybe?).
Fascinating question and testimony comparison, Susan, of Bridget's two different takes on what Lizzie first said to her. I can only think of two possibilities, tho there could be more. Lizzie could have said both things to Bridget. Or, when Bridget was talking to Knowlton before the trial, he could have gotten her to clarify just what Lizzie did say then.
Thanks for all the typing in your posts, Harry and Susan. It's very interesting. I had wondered for years what Bridget meant when she told Alice Russell that and did not say, "The old man! He's been murdered!" Maybe she did not hear Lizzie say "Someone's killed Father". Lizzie did ask her to go get a doctor, and then Miss Russell. If she didn't hear Lizzie say Andrew was dead, she could have not known. Didn't Lizzie say "Father's been hurt" or "stabbed" to someone (to Mrs. Churchill maybe?).
Fascinating question and testimony comparison, Susan, of Bridget's two different takes on what Lizzie first said to her. I can only think of two possibilities, tho there could be more. Lizzie could have said both things to Bridget. Or, when Bridget was talking to Knowlton before the trial, he could have gotten her to clarify just what Lizzie did say then.