Has anyone read the new book out on Louis McHenry Howe? It is called "FDR's Shadow: Louis Howe, The Force That Shaped Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt" by Julie M. Fenster. I've ordered a copy and am waiting for it to arrive.
I am anxious to see if any light is shed on Lizzie's relationship with Grace Hartley Howe, Louis' wife.
New Biography of Louis McHenry Howe
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stuartwsa
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Stefani
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Lizzie is mentioned just twice in the book. They say, unfortunately, that Lizzie was Grace's mother Mary's niece. You are a niece if you are the daughter of one's sibling or spouse's sibling.
Lizzie was Grace's mother Mary's first cousin once removed. Grace and Lizzie were second cousins.
Lizzie's grandfather Abraham's brother Cook, was the father of Mary Borden Hartley, and Mary was Grace's mother.
Lizzie was Grace's mother Mary's first cousin once removed. Grace and Lizzie were second cousins.
Lizzie's grandfather Abraham's brother Cook, was the father of Mary Borden Hartley, and Mary was Grace's mother.
Read Mondo Lizzie!
https://lizzieandrewborden.com/MondoLizzie/
Remember, amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic.
https://lizzieandrewborden.com/MondoLizzie/
Remember, amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic.
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Stefani
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The second time Lizzie is mentioned the author gets it wrong again. Julie M. Fenseter says that Lizzie and Grace were cousins. They were, in actuality, second cousins, and this is different than what she claims. I suppose when an historian uses a blog as a source, that is what will happen.
Read Mondo Lizzie!
https://lizzieandrewborden.com/MondoLizzie/
Remember, amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic.
https://lizzieandrewborden.com/MondoLizzie/
Remember, amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic.
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augusta
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Sounds like you got lucky, Stuart. I look forward to your posting about the lecture.
Stef -
The author used a blog as official research? That is funny.
I researched some on Louis Howe, Grace, and the Roosevelts and found it hard to stop. I learned so much and plan to continue just for the fun of it. My husband's father knew FDR and I was so dumb and young when my father-in-law was alive, I asked no questions about it! He said he went to Hyde Park and I had no idea what or where that was then. So dumb.
Stewart, one book I bought and enjoyed is "Roosevelt and Howe" by Alfred B. Rollins, Jr. Published by Alfred A. Knopf, NY, 1962.
On page 74, it says that, "Louis was hardly a proper suitor for the college-trained granddaughter of Cook Borden, one of the founders of Fall River's prosperity..."
There are two other Bordens briefly mentioned in the book, neither Lizzie.
"Grace Hartley Howe was a second cousin of Lizzie Borden... Grace was born in Fall River on November 9, 1874 to parents Dr. James W. Hartley and Mary Jane Borden Hartley. She was the grand-daughter of Cook Borden and Mary A. Bessey, his wife. Grace was the great grand-daughter of Richard Borden and Hope Cook, his wife; Nathan Bowen and Hannah Cook, his wife." (This from my unpublished manuscript, a non-fiction book on Lizzie.)
Or, put another way: "Cook Borden was an uncle of Andrew Jackson Borden... Mr. Borden (Cook) married Mary Ann Bessey on January 1, 1832. Their daughter, Mary J. Borden married Dr. James W. Hartley on May 1, 1853. They were the parents of Grace Hartley Howe, making Cook Borden the maternal grandfather of Grace Howe. ... Cook Borden was a great uncle of Lizzie and Emma Borden." (Also from my unpublished manuscript.)
Stef -
The author used a blog as official research? That is funny. I researched some on Louis Howe, Grace, and the Roosevelts and found it hard to stop. I learned so much and plan to continue just for the fun of it. My husband's father knew FDR and I was so dumb and young when my father-in-law was alive, I asked no questions about it! He said he went to Hyde Park and I had no idea what or where that was then. So dumb.
Stewart, one book I bought and enjoyed is "Roosevelt and Howe" by Alfred B. Rollins, Jr. Published by Alfred A. Knopf, NY, 1962.
On page 74, it says that, "Louis was hardly a proper suitor for the college-trained granddaughter of Cook Borden, one of the founders of Fall River's prosperity..."
There are two other Bordens briefly mentioned in the book, neither Lizzie.
"Grace Hartley Howe was a second cousin of Lizzie Borden... Grace was born in Fall River on November 9, 1874 to parents Dr. James W. Hartley and Mary Jane Borden Hartley. She was the grand-daughter of Cook Borden and Mary A. Bessey, his wife. Grace was the great grand-daughter of Richard Borden and Hope Cook, his wife; Nathan Bowen and Hannah Cook, his wife." (This from my unpublished manuscript, a non-fiction book on Lizzie.)
Or, put another way: "Cook Borden was an uncle of Andrew Jackson Borden... Mr. Borden (Cook) married Mary Ann Bessey on January 1, 1832. Their daughter, Mary J. Borden married Dr. James W. Hartley on May 1, 1853. They were the parents of Grace Hartley Howe, making Cook Borden the maternal grandfather of Grace Howe. ... Cook Borden was a great uncle of Lizzie and Emma Borden." (Also from my unpublished manuscript.)
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stuartwsa
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Thank you for the book reommendation and information, Augusta.
I just received the book yesterday, and am in the middle of the first chapter. The first thing I read, however was the acknowledgments, and immediately found out the author did absolutely no research locally on the Saratoga portion of the book! Everything seems to be coming from the FDR collection of papers in Hyde Park.
I have found what I've read so far to be very interesting, but I wish that more sources had been used to make the book more well-rounded.
Obviously, Augusta, there is still room for a good book on the subject--when will yours be published?
I just received the book yesterday, and am in the middle of the first chapter. The first thing I read, however was the acknowledgments, and immediately found out the author did absolutely no research locally on the Saratoga portion of the book! Everything seems to be coming from the FDR collection of papers in Hyde Park.
I have found what I've read so far to be very interesting, but I wish that more sources had been used to make the book more well-rounded.
Obviously, Augusta, there is still room for a good book on the subject--when will yours be published?
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stuartwsa
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Louis Howe talk
Julie Fenster gave a very interesting talk this evening at the Historical Society of Saratoga Springs. She was very well received by a good-sized crowd.
The focus of the talk was the same as the focus of her book: what was it in each of their characters (Howe, and Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt), that drew them all together and fueled their relationships? Howe had an enormous effect and influence on both of the Roosevelts' lives, and vice versa. He was well-versed politically, and kept FDR's feet "nailed to the floor" when need be. Eleanor initially didn't like Howe, but that all changed completely. When FDR contracted paralysis, Howe basically moved in to help nurse FDR and stayed with them for the rest of his life. He kept his eye on the politial goals even while FDR was recuperating, much to the chagrin of FDR's mother Sara, who wanted FDR to give up politics.
Ms. Fenster also delved into the motivation of why Howe would basically give up his life with his wife and children to stay with the Roosevelts.
She said that when the Howe papers (housed at the FDR Library) were made available in 2006, she looked forward to learning the "true" story of Louis Howe. But she was not prepared for what she found: Grace physically and emotionally rejected him, and he made constant pleas to her to accept and love him. "When I read those letters, it tore me apart," she said. So, the Roosevelts helped give Louis the emotional fulfillment he could not get from Grace at home.
After her talk, she fielded several questions from the audience. She was surprised and delighted that folks in this area had so much knowledge of Howe.
She stayed for quite a while afterwards, signing copies of her book. She spent quite a while chatting with each person waiting for her signature. She was very easy to talk to, and I did get an answer to a question that had been puzzling me: where were Louis and Grace married? (Fall River, it turns out.)
I am halfway through the book, and finding it to be a very compelling read (error on Lizzie not withstanding).
And I'm starting to wonder about the emotional coldness that Grace seemed to project: doesn't that just sound like our girl Lizzie? Is this a Borden family trait?
The focus of the talk was the same as the focus of her book: what was it in each of their characters (Howe, and Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt), that drew them all together and fueled their relationships? Howe had an enormous effect and influence on both of the Roosevelts' lives, and vice versa. He was well-versed politically, and kept FDR's feet "nailed to the floor" when need be. Eleanor initially didn't like Howe, but that all changed completely. When FDR contracted paralysis, Howe basically moved in to help nurse FDR and stayed with them for the rest of his life. He kept his eye on the politial goals even while FDR was recuperating, much to the chagrin of FDR's mother Sara, who wanted FDR to give up politics.
Ms. Fenster also delved into the motivation of why Howe would basically give up his life with his wife and children to stay with the Roosevelts.
She said that when the Howe papers (housed at the FDR Library) were made available in 2006, she looked forward to learning the "true" story of Louis Howe. But she was not prepared for what she found: Grace physically and emotionally rejected him, and he made constant pleas to her to accept and love him. "When I read those letters, it tore me apart," she said. So, the Roosevelts helped give Louis the emotional fulfillment he could not get from Grace at home.
After her talk, she fielded several questions from the audience. She was surprised and delighted that folks in this area had so much knowledge of Howe.
She stayed for quite a while afterwards, signing copies of her book. She spent quite a while chatting with each person waiting for her signature. She was very easy to talk to, and I did get an answer to a question that had been puzzling me: where were Louis and Grace married? (Fall River, it turns out.)
I am halfway through the book, and finding it to be a very compelling read (error on Lizzie not withstanding).
And I'm starting to wonder about the emotional coldness that Grace seemed to project: doesn't that just sound like our girl Lizzie? Is this a Borden family trait?
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doug65oh
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Stuart that sounds like a fascinating evening but a very sad story indeed. It’s ironic I think: All three were emotionally damaged, starved or neglected in some fashion, and yet each provided something the other badly needed – be it Louis, FDR, or Eleanor. If memory serves, Mrs. Roosevelt once said that it was Louis Howe taught her how to really speak in public.
I staid the night for shelter at a farm behind the mountains, with a mother and son - two "old-believers." They did all the talking...
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- Robert Frost
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augusta
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Stuart, thanks much for posting on the lecture! It was very interesting to me. I don't know why I'm so interested in Grace Howe and Louis. I find him to be quite a character.
Ha! I share your opinion on the author's comments on Grace's coldness, sounding like a Borden.
If memory serves me correctly (and it doesn't a lot of the time...) it seems that Grace was being courted aggressively by an Irish man her mother disapproved of. So her mother took her out of town and there she met Louis Howe. Maybe part of her unreceptiveness was due to her still having feelings for the Irish man?
Actually Grace and Louis eloped to a little town in Vermont in 1898. Her mother insisted they have a church wedding, so they did it again in Fall River in 1899 at the Church of the Ascension (the church that did Lizzie's burial). (Reference: my unpublished book.)
Louis is portrayed by Hume Cronyn in 'Sunrise at Campabello', and he is given a big part in the mini-series "Eleanor & Franklin". But both films had no Grace in them.
She is mentioned in "Eleanor & Franklin" once or twice. I think once Eleanor (Jane Alexander) received some flowers and a card and commented they were from "Grace". I hope if they ever do another film on FDR, they put Grace in there.
Yes, Louis Howe was with FDR a LOT of the time. He had his own bedroom at the White House. I just looked at it as what it was on the surface, that he had to be in Washington for FDR much of the time.
I was surprised at the revelation of Grace's indifference to him. That was an exciting, new thing I hadn't heard. It does make sense. I think Grace came to Washington a lot, tho. And when Louis went back home I think they had a cabin on Horseneck Beach? Seems like when they first stayed there, there was no road to it and it was extremely private. I think the Roosevelts visited them there.
BTW, "Franklin & Eleanor", which I had never seen before until a year or two ago when I was researching Louis & Grace, I thought was really good. I got my copy from PBS for around $25.
I think Louis Howe was there at Campabello with FDR when he first contracted polio. That afternoon, FDR had swam with some of his children and went on a long hike with them (it seems not all of their children were there - this was I think 1921) and he became sick that early evening/late afternoon. FDR wanted to throw in the towel, but Howe was a driving force in his (at least) mental recovery. If it had not been for Howe, FDR would not have continued politically.
I read somewhere that more recently, they don't think FDR had polio. It was extremely rare in adults and there was another red flag or two. I can't remember what they now think he might have had.
Doughoh, I think you're right in that L. Howe taught Eleanor R. how to speak in public. She didn't want to, but with Franklin laid up especially at first, she had to. Louis Howe was remarkable!
Stuart, my book is going to be published. I don't know when due to my publisher's backlog. As soon as it's known, it'll be posted, that's for sure. I wish I could tell you what it's about - it's a totally different angle on Lizzie, non-fiction, that's never been done before. But at this point it's only an idea, tho my text is copyrighted. And technically someone could run off with it. Thank you for asking.
Ha! I share your opinion on the author's comments on Grace's coldness, sounding like a Borden.
If memory serves me correctly (and it doesn't a lot of the time...) it seems that Grace was being courted aggressively by an Irish man her mother disapproved of. So her mother took her out of town and there she met Louis Howe. Maybe part of her unreceptiveness was due to her still having feelings for the Irish man?
Actually Grace and Louis eloped to a little town in Vermont in 1898. Her mother insisted they have a church wedding, so they did it again in Fall River in 1899 at the Church of the Ascension (the church that did Lizzie's burial). (Reference: my unpublished book.)
Louis is portrayed by Hume Cronyn in 'Sunrise at Campabello', and he is given a big part in the mini-series "Eleanor & Franklin". But both films had no Grace in them.
She is mentioned in "Eleanor & Franklin" once or twice. I think once Eleanor (Jane Alexander) received some flowers and a card and commented they were from "Grace". I hope if they ever do another film on FDR, they put Grace in there. Yes, Louis Howe was with FDR a LOT of the time. He had his own bedroom at the White House. I just looked at it as what it was on the surface, that he had to be in Washington for FDR much of the time.
I was surprised at the revelation of Grace's indifference to him. That was an exciting, new thing I hadn't heard. It does make sense. I think Grace came to Washington a lot, tho. And when Louis went back home I think they had a cabin on Horseneck Beach? Seems like when they first stayed there, there was no road to it and it was extremely private. I think the Roosevelts visited them there.
BTW, "Franklin & Eleanor", which I had never seen before until a year or two ago when I was researching Louis & Grace, I thought was really good. I got my copy from PBS for around $25.
I think Louis Howe was there at Campabello with FDR when he first contracted polio. That afternoon, FDR had swam with some of his children and went on a long hike with them (it seems not all of their children were there - this was I think 1921) and he became sick that early evening/late afternoon. FDR wanted to throw in the towel, but Howe was a driving force in his (at least) mental recovery. If it had not been for Howe, FDR would not have continued politically.
I read somewhere that more recently, they don't think FDR had polio. It was extremely rare in adults and there was another red flag or two. I can't remember what they now think he might have had.
Doughoh, I think you're right in that L. Howe taught Eleanor R. how to speak in public. She didn't want to, but with Franklin laid up especially at first, she had to. Louis Howe was remarkable!
Stuart, my book is going to be published. I don't know when due to my publisher's backlog. As soon as it's known, it'll be posted, that's for sure. I wish I could tell you what it's about - it's a totally different angle on Lizzie, non-fiction, that's never been done before. But at this point it's only an idea, tho my text is copyrighted. And technically someone could run off with it. Thank you for asking.
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stuartwsa
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A man named "Willie" is mentioned a couple of times in the book, and Louis seems to be quite jealous of him. His last name seems to be unknown, as is what his relationship to Grace actually was.
Grace did seem to be indifferent to Louis, but strangely enough she always seems to be nearby and supportive of Louis. That she raised she children to love their father despite his frequent absences to me speaks volumes. I wish I could read those letters!!
So far in the book, FDR's illness has been referred to as "infantile paralysis." (I'm showing my ignorance here: I don't know if that is considered the same as polio or not.)
You've got one customer in line already for your book, Augusta. I can't wait until it is published. It sounds most intriguing!
Grace did seem to be indifferent to Louis, but strangely enough she always seems to be nearby and supportive of Louis. That she raised she children to love their father despite his frequent absences to me speaks volumes. I wish I could read those letters!!
So far in the book, FDR's illness has been referred to as "infantile paralysis." (I'm showing my ignorance here: I don't know if that is considered the same as polio or not.)
You've got one customer in line already for your book, Augusta.
I can't wait until it is published. It sounds most intriguing!-
doug65oh
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Stuart: Per Merriam-Webster.com, the two are the same. Poliomyelitis is defined as: "an acute infectious disease caused by the poliovirus and characterized by fever, motor paralysis, and atrophy of skeletal muscles often with permanent disability and deformity and marked by inflammation of nerve cells in the anterior gray matter in each lateral half of the spinal cord — called also infantile paralysis."
A search for the term infantile paralysis – also at Merriam-Webster.com – directs the searcher to the entry for poliomyelitis. “Infantile paralysis” came first, originating ca. 1843. “Poliomyelitis” came along next, originating ca. 1878. Interestingly, the word polio – presumably a contraction of Poliomyelitis – did not appear until ca. 1931, some ten years after FDR’s diagnosis. It’s pure speculation on my part, but I think the disease was referred to as infantile paralysis because it was most commonly seen in young children.
At any rate, the two are synonymous.
A search for the term infantile paralysis – also at Merriam-Webster.com – directs the searcher to the entry for poliomyelitis. “Infantile paralysis” came first, originating ca. 1843. “Poliomyelitis” came along next, originating ca. 1878. Interestingly, the word polio – presumably a contraction of Poliomyelitis – did not appear until ca. 1931, some ten years after FDR’s diagnosis. It’s pure speculation on my part, but I think the disease was referred to as infantile paralysis because it was most commonly seen in young children.
At any rate, the two are synonymous.
I staid the night for shelter at a farm behind the mountains, with a mother and son - two "old-believers." They did all the talking...
- Robert Frost
- Robert Frost
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doug65oh
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Augusta – if you can get to the site and the link is functioning (it’s a hit or miss proposition sometimes but it usually works) at http://video.pbs.org/video/1049332797/c ... feature/65 you’ll find a program called FDR, part of a series on the Presidents. It’s not terribly new, has been around at least a few years, but it does provide some fascinating insights into the lives of all three Roosevelts – FDR, Eleanor, and Sara, the infamous “Mrs. R.” The program runs around 4 hours, but is divided into chapters as a DVD would be so it’s not hard to hop around and find the spot you want or the last part you saw. Louis Howe also figures somewhat prominently in the program as we might expect – although nary a word is ever said about his home life. (I was genuinely shocked to hear of the state of things between Louis & Grace, it was probably the one thing I’d never ever heard before about the Howe-Roosevelt relationship.) It’s particularly touching at one point – or I found it so – to hear Eleanor herself talk about going to political meetings with Louis Howe in the 1920s. An amazing feller indeed, Louis Howe.
The program also discusses the polio a fair bit, in the way it affected FDR, but also sociologically. By the way Stuart, there’s also a still shot in the documentary of a sign that says “Infantile Paralysis (Poliomyelitis.) Keep Off This Street!”
As far as putting a Grace Howe character in any new film on FDR is concerned – why? Unless there’s a good reason (like a scene depicting Louis’s funeral or burial) it’d be silly to do that without strong documentary support for any such scene.
The program also discusses the polio a fair bit, in the way it affected FDR, but also sociologically. By the way Stuart, there’s also a still shot in the documentary of a sign that says “Infantile Paralysis (Poliomyelitis.) Keep Off This Street!”
As far as putting a Grace Howe character in any new film on FDR is concerned – why? Unless there’s a good reason (like a scene depicting Louis’s funeral or burial) it’d be silly to do that without strong documentary support for any such scene.
I staid the night for shelter at a farm behind the mountains, with a mother and son - two "old-believers." They did all the talking...
- Robert Frost
- Robert Frost
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augusta
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Stuart, what a sweet thing to say about my book! Thank you. A lot of the stuff in it was new when I first started writing it (6 years ago). Now some things have been found by other researchers, but not all.
My husband had polio when he was 7 years old. He was very lucky and seemed to have no permanent effects, tho he has medical problems with his legs from time to time that I gotta wonder if it's stemming from that.
YES! I wish we could read those letters about Grace being indifferent! I was just thinking that before I read that line in your post. Aren't all things at the FDR library up for fair use? That might not include some letters, tho. But if they are public now ...
"Willie". Hmm. Doesn't ring a bell. I don't know if that Irish man was named at all in the book 'Roosevelt and Howe'.
Is there anything in Saratoga Springs that leaves tribute to Louis Howe? A historical marker or something?
Dougoh, THANK YOU for the link! I'll go there! Does it have Louis Howe talking on it? It'd be interesting, to me, to hear his voice.
Why put Grace in an FDR movie? For us Bordenites! ha ha She was Louis's wife, and she hung with the Roosevelts a lot. And she was involved in politics. Grace went to Vassar - she was no simple housewife. And she was named the Postmaster of Fall River - I think the first female one in the U.S. I think it'd be interesting to viewers to know that L. Howe's wife was related to Lizzie Borden. He had a theory on the Borden case, and I've read they used to joke about it in the White House. Bea Arthur would have made a great Grace Howe, don't you think? Unfortunately, she's passed on.
A lot of the stuff in it was new when I first started writing it (6 years ago). Now some things have been found by other researchers, but not all.My husband had polio when he was 7 years old. He was very lucky and seemed to have no permanent effects, tho he has medical problems with his legs from time to time that I gotta wonder if it's stemming from that.
YES! I wish we could read those letters about Grace being indifferent! I was just thinking that before I read that line in your post. Aren't all things at the FDR library up for fair use? That might not include some letters, tho. But if they are public now ...
"Willie". Hmm. Doesn't ring a bell. I don't know if that Irish man was named at all in the book 'Roosevelt and Howe'.
Is there anything in Saratoga Springs that leaves tribute to Louis Howe? A historical marker or something?
Dougoh, THANK YOU for the link! I'll go there!
Does it have Louis Howe talking on it? It'd be interesting, to me, to hear his voice. Why put Grace in an FDR movie? For us Bordenites! ha ha She was Louis's wife, and she hung with the Roosevelts a lot. And she was involved in politics. Grace went to Vassar - she was no simple housewife. And she was named the Postmaster of Fall River - I think the first female one in the U.S. I think it'd be interesting to viewers to know that L. Howe's wife was related to Lizzie Borden. He had a theory on the Borden case, and I've read they used to joke about it in the White House. Bea Arthur would have made a great Grace Howe, don't you think? Unfortunately, she's passed on.
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augusta
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I visited the Saratoga Springs website out of curiosity. I'd never been there, tho I've been thru much of New York. Of course - they have the race track there! 
And the famous battle. I didn't even think of those.
In Wilton, NY, which must be nearby since it was on the website, is the cottage that Ulysses S. Grant spent his last month. He finished his biography there, which I have but haven't read yet. That's some place I'd like to see. Looks like they have a lot of activities going on there.
BTW, he died of throat cancer. The date? August 4th (1885).
And the famous battle. I didn't even think of those.In Wilton, NY, which must be nearby since it was on the website, is the cottage that Ulysses S. Grant spent his last month. He finished his biography there, which I have but haven't read yet. That's some place I'd like to see. Looks like they have a lot of activities going on there.
BTW, he died of throat cancer. The date? August 4th (1885).
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doug65oh
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You’re welcome augusta. It takes awhile to get through as I said, but you might enjoy it. Unfortunately it doesn’t have any audio clips of Louis Howe in it, although he may appear (it’s difficult to tell really) in some Roosevelt home movie clips they used in the program. Audio or sound-on-film clips of Howe might well exist (the folks at the FDR library at Hyde Park would know if anyone would) but they’d be I’d expect relatively rare. The first taping system wasn’t installed in the Oval Office, for instance, until the autumn of 1940, long after Louis was gone. Eleanor talks about him though, as does one of the Roosevelt grandchildren, Curtis. (Apparently Louis left quite an impression on him!) 
Not long into this thread though, note was made of a few mistakes in Ms. Fenster's book. I've not read it yet (it's on my list) but this much I can tell you for certain: The biographical entry for Louis McHenry Howe at FindAGrave.com is far worse! I looked through it for the first time last night and was utterly disgusted. Realizing of course that none of us is perfect, I like to think that the newspaperman side of Louis Howe would have planted a boot squarely (and with any luck permanently) in this ‘biographer’s backside, and with good reason. Accurate it ain't, and that's for sure! The first error appears in the second sentence, and it goes on downhill from there. It doesn't take a history geek to recognize the errors either - 5 minutes of the most basic background research on Howe and FDR plus a working knowledge of simple math - a 10 year old could do better for pity sakes! At least the writer has him buried in the right cemetery!
Errr...I hate to tell you this augusta, but General Grant was dead for more than a week before the 4th of August 1885. He died the 23rd of July and his obituary appeared in the New York Times on the 24th of July 1885. (See http://www.nps.gov/history/logcabin/html/usg6.html and http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general ... /0427.html -amongst others - for corroboration.)
Not long into this thread though, note was made of a few mistakes in Ms. Fenster's book. I've not read it yet (it's on my list) but this much I can tell you for certain: The biographical entry for Louis McHenry Howe at FindAGrave.com is far worse! I looked through it for the first time last night and was utterly disgusted. Realizing of course that none of us is perfect, I like to think that the newspaperman side of Louis Howe would have planted a boot squarely (and with any luck permanently) in this ‘biographer’s backside, and with good reason. Accurate it ain't, and that's for sure! The first error appears in the second sentence, and it goes on downhill from there. It doesn't take a history geek to recognize the errors either - 5 minutes of the most basic background research on Howe and FDR plus a working knowledge of simple math - a 10 year old could do better for pity sakes! At least the writer has him buried in the right cemetery!
Errr...I hate to tell you this augusta, but General Grant was dead for more than a week before the 4th of August 1885. He died the 23rd of July and his obituary appeared in the New York Times on the 24th of July 1885. (See http://www.nps.gov/history/logcabin/html/usg6.html and http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general ... /0427.html -amongst others - for corroboration.)
I staid the night for shelter at a farm behind the mountains, with a mother and son - two "old-believers." They did all the talking...
- Robert Frost
- Robert Frost
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stuartwsa
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As far as I know, Augusta, there is no sort of marker or tribute to the Howe family anywhere. (There is a Howe Building on the Skidmore College campus, but research proved that it was named after someone entirely different.)
Grant Cottage! What a small world we live in. I grew up in Wilton, and our house was at the base of Mt. McGregor. I went to Grant's Cottage countless times as a child. Indeed, the elderly curator was a close friend of the family. She lived on the second floor there, and I was invited to spend the night many times.
Grant Cottage! What a small world we live in. I grew up in Wilton, and our house was at the base of Mt. McGregor. I went to Grant's Cottage countless times as a child. Indeed, the elderly curator was a close friend of the family. She lived on the second floor there, and I was invited to spend the night many times.
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Kat
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Ruby Cameron used to claim that she was nurse in the FDR household.
And that is a Grace Howe connection, I would think. And I just noticed last week in some of my old notes that Helen Leighton's parents were from Cherryfield, Maine, which is where Ruby lived.
So these 2 ladies (Howe & Leighton) were big beneficiaries in Lizzie's will.
What's the connection?
I've sometimes wondered if Helen Leighton was tipped off to become a friend of Lizzie- a rich spinster alienated from her family- to maybe get into a will? And Cherryfield, Maine- where her parents lived and also Ruby Cameron, who also claimed to have nursed for Lizzie?
And that is a Grace Howe connection, I would think. And I just noticed last week in some of my old notes that Helen Leighton's parents were from Cherryfield, Maine, which is where Ruby lived.
So these 2 ladies (Howe & Leighton) were big beneficiaries in Lizzie's will.
What's the connection?
I've sometimes wondered if Helen Leighton was tipped off to become a friend of Lizzie- a rich spinster alienated from her family- to maybe get into a will? And Cherryfield, Maine- where her parents lived and also Ruby Cameron, who also claimed to have nursed for Lizzie?
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stuartwsa
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Those are very good questions, Kat. I've always felt that Helen Leighton sure seemed to be in the right place at the right time.
If Grace and Helen didn't know each other, I'm sure they did by the time the will was finally settled!
I wonder if there will be anything about either woman in "Parallel Lives"?
If Grace and Helen didn't know each other, I'm sure they did by the time the will was finally settled!
I wonder if there will be anything about either woman in "Parallel Lives"?
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Kat
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augusta
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Dougoh, thank you for catching my error. 
Even "Find a Grave" and the website of the last place he lived at (the cottage in Wilton, NY) both had July 23, 1885 as his date of death. I wonder where I got August 4th from?
Oh, you lucky guy, Stewart. That's really something about you and your past association with the Grant cottage in Wilton. Thanks for sharing! Any memories or events from being there will be most warmly welcome.
Kat, I think I have some firsthand material on Helen Leighton and the Animal Rescue League of FR. Finding it is the problem.
That's right! I forgot about Ruby Cameron saying she was a nurse for the Roosevelts! And the other things you posted - it's like they all seem to come together somehow. Interesting...
Louis and Grace also had a son. It'd be interesting to see a picture of their children, with their parents' characteristics mixed together.
Dougoh, that was funny about that write-up you found on Find a Grave on Louis Howe. From my experiences, Find a Grave doesn't check real well, if at all, on facts people submit.
A while back, someone listed Nance O'Neil's grave on it and all there was was a photo of the sign of the cemetery in, I think, Englewood New Jersey! That was certainly no proof of her being buried there. She did die at the Actor's Home I think in that town. It turned out she's buried out in California. Yet Find a Grave accepted someone's word that she was buried in the New Jersey cemetery. I wish they'd have people submit proof, if there is no actual gravestone, that the person is in the cemetery they claim. Or refuse to accept photos of cemetery signs if there is no actual grave photo already posted or one to go with the person's submission. It gives them a reputation like Wikipedia.
Even "Find a Grave" and the website of the last place he lived at (the cottage in Wilton, NY) both had July 23, 1885 as his date of death. I wonder where I got August 4th from? Oh, you lucky guy, Stewart.
That's really something about you and your past association with the Grant cottage in Wilton. Thanks for sharing! Any memories or events from being there will be most warmly welcome.Kat, I think I have some firsthand material on Helen Leighton and the Animal Rescue League of FR. Finding it is the problem.
That's right! I forgot about Ruby Cameron saying she was a nurse for the Roosevelts! And the other things you posted - it's like they all seem to come together somehow. Interesting...
Louis and Grace also had a son. It'd be interesting to see a picture of their children, with their parents' characteristics mixed together.
Dougoh, that was funny about that write-up you found on Find a Grave on Louis Howe. From my experiences, Find a Grave doesn't check real well, if at all, on facts people submit.
A while back, someone listed Nance O'Neil's grave on it and all there was was a photo of the sign of the cemetery in, I think, Englewood New Jersey! That was certainly no proof of her being buried there. She did die at the Actor's Home I think in that town. It turned out she's buried out in California. Yet Find a Grave accepted someone's word that she was buried in the New Jersey cemetery. I wish they'd have people submit proof, if there is no actual gravestone, that the person is in the cemetery they claim. Or refuse to accept photos of cemetery signs if there is no actual grave photo already posted or one to go with the person's submission. It gives them a reputation like Wikipedia.
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doug65oh
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My guess augusta is that you were suffering from a bad case of “Borden on the Brain” where General Grant was concerned.
The Findagrave entry on Louis Howe is godawful though. Among the errors I found in that squidge (based on about two minutes of the most basic research) were these:
1. The Howe-Roosevelt relationship was already well-established by 1920. Louis first became aware of FDR about 1911 when Mr. Howe was a newspaperman covering New York State politics in Albany and Franklin Roosevelt was a newly-elected state assemblyman. Both Roosevelts, however, were definitely acquainted with Louis by 1912, because Mrs. Roosevelt sought out Howe to manage FDR's re-election campaign.
2. The second goof is one of simple math, and regards FDR’s age in August, 1921. 39 years – not 33 - elapsed between January, 1882 and August, 1921.
3. This is where things get really ugly. The Findagrave entry says that Louis Howe passed away at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, DC. There are actually two problems with that: Louis Howe spent the last eight months of his life as a patient at the National Naval Medical Center at Bethesda, Maryland (from about August, 1935) and died there in April, 1936. Not only is there an obvious difference in hospitals, but Bethesda is outside the bounds of the District of Columbia, in Montgomery County, Maryland.
Oddly, I had a brief correspondence with the feller credited with the findagrave bio of Mr. Howe. He replied that they have him credited with hundreds of bios there, but that most of them he had nothing to do with at all. (That one I took with a spoonful of salt. Things being what they are though, you just never know.)
Surprisingly, ancestry.com isn’t much better. Information contained there suggests that Louis McHenry Howe died at Fall River, Bristol County, Massachusetts! (I ran the known info for Louis McHenry Howe three times to be sure. It matches our feller to the letter on all points except for the place of death.)
The Findagrave entry on Louis Howe is godawful though. Among the errors I found in that squidge (based on about two minutes of the most basic research) were these:
1. The Howe-Roosevelt relationship was already well-established by 1920. Louis first became aware of FDR about 1911 when Mr. Howe was a newspaperman covering New York State politics in Albany and Franklin Roosevelt was a newly-elected state assemblyman. Both Roosevelts, however, were definitely acquainted with Louis by 1912, because Mrs. Roosevelt sought out Howe to manage FDR's re-election campaign.
2. The second goof is one of simple math, and regards FDR’s age in August, 1921. 39 years – not 33 - elapsed between January, 1882 and August, 1921.
3. This is where things get really ugly. The Findagrave entry says that Louis Howe passed away at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, DC. There are actually two problems with that: Louis Howe spent the last eight months of his life as a patient at the National Naval Medical Center at Bethesda, Maryland (from about August, 1935) and died there in April, 1936. Not only is there an obvious difference in hospitals, but Bethesda is outside the bounds of the District of Columbia, in Montgomery County, Maryland.
Oddly, I had a brief correspondence with the feller credited with the findagrave bio of Mr. Howe. He replied that they have him credited with hundreds of bios there, but that most of them he had nothing to do with at all. (That one I took with a spoonful of salt. Things being what they are though, you just never know.)
Surprisingly, ancestry.com isn’t much better. Information contained there suggests that Louis McHenry Howe died at Fall River, Bristol County, Massachusetts! (I ran the known info for Louis McHenry Howe three times to be sure. It matches our feller to the letter on all points except for the place of death.)
I staid the night for shelter at a farm behind the mountains, with a mother and son - two "old-believers." They did all the talking...
- Robert Frost
- Robert Frost
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doug65oh
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Oh, I guess I didn't paste those in! I used the standard 2 source rule for everything, although in most cases there are at least three if not more sources for much of this - as with FDR's age, for example.
The three primary sources I used are http://www.nps.gov/archive/elro/glossary/howe-louis.htm
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 31,00.html - which provides definite contemporary confirmation that Mr. Howe in fact died at Bethesda Naval Hospital rather than Walter Reed Army Medical Center.
and
http://video.pbs.org/video/1049332797/c ... feature/65
The latter url is most helpful, as it contains a rather extensive article on the life of President Roosevelt which includes excellent documentation of his relationship with Louis Howe - specifically early dates and circumstances, etc.
As I say, undoubtely there are more sources that would corroborate the information, but these were the sources I found in at most two minutes having done a basic web search!
I used the standard 2 source rule for everything, although in most cases there are at least three if not more sources for much of this - as with FDR's age, for example.The three primary sources I used are http://www.nps.gov/archive/elro/glossary/howe-louis.htm
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 31,00.html - which provides definite contemporary confirmation that Mr. Howe in fact died at Bethesda Naval Hospital rather than Walter Reed Army Medical Center.
and
http://video.pbs.org/video/1049332797/c ... feature/65
The latter url is most helpful, as it contains a rather extensive article on the life of President Roosevelt which includes excellent documentation of his relationship with Louis Howe - specifically early dates and circumstances, etc.
As I say, undoubtely there are more sources that would corroborate the information, but these were the sources I found in at most two minutes having done a basic web search!
I staid the night for shelter at a farm behind the mountains, with a mother and son - two "old-believers." They did all the talking...
- Robert Frost
- Robert Frost
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Kat
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I think between you, Doug-Oh, and Augusta- you guys could do a very credible job at sweeping thru FindAGrave making corrections! Yay! I think it's cool when someone takes the time to care that a site like that is riddled with inaccuracies!
Thanks for your response and the reminder that PBS dot org is an excellent resource!
Thanks for your response and the reminder that PBS dot org is an excellent resource!
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doug65oh
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Well, as I said, it's not hard to find correct information on such a person as Louis Howe. A barefooted village boob might well have done better than findagrave did.
I think the thing that I found most touching was the fact that before the body was shipped back to Massachusetts, a state funeral was arranged by Mrs. Roosevelt, the service conducted in the East Room of the White House. Howe himself must have been quite the character. He once referred to himself as “one of the four ugliest men in the state of New York” and had personal cards printed bearing the name ‘Colonel Louis Rasputin Voltaire Talleyrand Simon Legree Howe’ – apparently referring to all the names he’d been called over the years.
As for changing findagrave information, I looked into that the other week and it appears not the easiest thing in the world to do. Any bio squib found with an error must be submitted for what they refer to as an upgrade (if I understood the instructions correctly) and any changes must be approved by someone else, presumably further up the food chain. I’ve actually got a revised biography started, but it needs a bit more work yet before I submit anything to the findahole folks.
I think the thing that I found most touching was the fact that before the body was shipped back to Massachusetts, a state funeral was arranged by Mrs. Roosevelt, the service conducted in the East Room of the White House. Howe himself must have been quite the character. He once referred to himself as “one of the four ugliest men in the state of New York” and had personal cards printed bearing the name ‘Colonel Louis Rasputin Voltaire Talleyrand Simon Legree Howe’ – apparently referring to all the names he’d been called over the years.
As for changing findagrave information, I looked into that the other week and it appears not the easiest thing in the world to do. Any bio squib found with an error must be submitted for what they refer to as an upgrade (if I understood the instructions correctly) and any changes must be approved by someone else, presumably further up the food chain. I’ve actually got a revised biography started, but it needs a bit more work yet before I submit anything to the findahole folks.
I staid the night for shelter at a farm behind the mountains, with a mother and son - two "old-believers." They did all the talking...
- Robert Frost
- Robert Frost
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Stefani
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I just finished reading the book and liked it very much. It is a really quick read for anyone who wants a short take on this history. It is a slim 224 pages. I am sure that Howe's story with FDR and Eleanor could be much longer.
At the end of the book, Lizzie is mentioned again when she dies and leaves Grace the ring and half interest in the AJ Borden building. Fenster calls it "a large office building in Fall River." Oddly, she also states that "the income from the building was enough to maintain her in comfort."
The probate for this bequeath, including the diamond and amethyst ring, was valued at a mere $36,000. Not at all the huge sum that Fenster alludes to. But then ---(warning, snarky comment coming)---- the author thanks a blogger/expert for the details of the Lizzie part of the book.
Do you think that this bequeath would set Grace up for life? Have we any proof of this? There is no footnote for the statement. I am curious as to the answer if anyone has one!
At the end of the book, Lizzie is mentioned again when she dies and leaves Grace the ring and half interest in the AJ Borden building. Fenster calls it "a large office building in Fall River." Oddly, she also states that "the income from the building was enough to maintain her in comfort."
The probate for this bequeath, including the diamond and amethyst ring, was valued at a mere $36,000. Not at all the huge sum that Fenster alludes to. But then ---(warning, snarky comment coming)---- the author thanks a blogger/expert for the details of the Lizzie part of the book.
Do you think that this bequeath would set Grace up for life? Have we any proof of this? There is no footnote for the statement. I am curious as to the answer if anyone has one!
Read Mondo Lizzie!
https://lizzieandrewborden.com/MondoLizzie/
Remember, amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic.
https://lizzieandrewborden.com/MondoLizzie/
Remember, amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic.
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augusta
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Without dipping into my files, I will say that if that were the case she would have had to sell the items her beloved second cousin, Lizzie, left her, and would she have done it?
When Louis died, the Roosevelts worried about Grace's income thereafter. And Lizzie died before Louis Howe. So at the next Democratic convention, FDR named her the Post Mistress of Fall River, which gave her a steady income, and which she remained as such until I think 1955. She had earned it, tho, being heavily involved in Roosevelt politics in southern Massachusetts. She was known as a somewhat powerful woman.
I have an older book called "Roosevelt and Howe" by Alfred B. Rollins, Jr., c 1962, first edition. Rightly or wrongly so, he didn't quote from blogs.
When Louis died, the Roosevelts worried about Grace's income thereafter. And Lizzie died before Louis Howe. So at the next Democratic convention, FDR named her the Post Mistress of Fall River, which gave her a steady income, and which she remained as such until I think 1955. She had earned it, tho, being heavily involved in Roosevelt politics in southern Massachusetts. She was known as a somewhat powerful woman.
I have an older book called "Roosevelt and Howe" by Alfred B. Rollins, Jr., c 1962, first edition. Rightly or wrongly so, he didn't quote from blogs.