Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Lizzie on findadeath
http://www.findadeath.com/Deceased/b/Li ... borden.htm
Please excuse if this has been posted but I didn't find it .

In this article, it is stated, 'Lizzie owned both houses on each side of Maplecroft for her attending servants.'

I've not heard this before - Is it true?

Yes twinsrwe:

No, Lizzie did not own the houses on each side of Maplecorft. The house to the East, was known as the Kenny house. Lizzie purchased the property with the idea that the owner's would move the building, which they did. Lizzie then extended her yard and built her garage.

The house on the west side of her was the Swift House. That house was already there before Maplecorft was built. It was owned by the Swift family. Marcus Swift was an attorney. Later his son owned it and lived there with his mother (widow). His name was John Swift. One of his occupations was as police chief in fall river. Marcus Swift was an attorney. Later he did some work for Emma becoming her attorney.

The Swifts lived in that home before Maplecorft was built and they were still there after Lizzie Borden Died.

Now, on the other side of the Kenny House was another building known today as the Davenport house, the house I live in. It had become known as the Henry House, because when it was sold to Lizzie, just before Lizzie died,(1926) Harriet Henry sold it to Lizzie. It was built for James Davenport the Seventh mayor of fall river, and I believe he used it as income property. But after the mayor died, his wife Phoebe Davenport moved there and lived there for over 25 years.

So Lizzie did own two houses, but they were both on the east side.

Oh, Yes: A couple of more things.

Lizzie did own a small lot on the west side of her house facing Belmont Street. It was very tiny. It was sold to her with the agreement that it would stay as a yard or lawn. Lizzie wanted to place her driveway there so she could enter via Belmont street, but the agreement prevented her from doing so. Eventually, the lot reverted back to the Swift family and today is part of the backyard of the Swift house.

Another story or folklore that is NOT correct, is that Lizzie purchased the Henry or Kenny houses so her servants could live there. Lizzie purchased the Kenny house for the land alone. After she purchased my building, the Davenport House, (Henry House) she had some extensive work done on it. She is probably responsible for the addition which was added to the Davenport House in which new kitchens were installed. I have yet to research that.

But, it has been proven that "Lizzie did extensive improvements to the property." When Lizzie purchased the Davenport house, Harriet Henry lived on the second floor and a fellow named Belcher lived on the first. Shortly after Lizzie died I believe the house was empty, with no one living there. (here)

So Lizzie's servants or maids never lived in either house, and it is doubtful that it was the purpose for Lizzie's purchase, though, we don't know.

Below is the placard which I built myself out of scrap wood.

It is not the one you will see on historical homes in fall river.

I was offered one by the fall river Historical Commission but I refused it. When I was fighting a business going across the street from Maplecroft I wanted them to write me a letter stating that I lived in a historical Neighborhood. They refused to get involved. I told them that I did not want them to get involved or even mention my case, just a simple letter that confirms that it "was" a historical neighborhood. They still said No.

I had all I could do to tell them what they could do with their placard when they offered it to me.

Yes, on the occasion of being thorough:

Below is a google map of Maplecorft. (I love these maps)

The house in the center with the white roof is Maplecroft.

The house to its right is the Davenport House.

The house to the left is the Swift House. The Swift House sits on the corner of French and Belmont Street.

The Kenny house, which was moved around 1899/1900. It was squeezed inbetween Maplecroft and the house to the right. (Davenport) Where Maplecroft's driveway sits.......with a white and black car in it.

The large tree behind the Swift house, in the left hand corner of the photo is the approx. lot once owned by Lizzie. If you look closely to the right of Maplecorft towards the back is the roof for Lizzie's Garage—with the white car in front of it, and the small roof to the right of that is the garage for the Davenport house.

Towards the end of Lizzie's life, it was reported that she was depressed and lonely much of the time. At that time she had a friend whom she found very dear.

Catherine MacFarland lived on High Street in fall river, approx. seven or eight blocks from Maplecorft. Her occupation was dressmaker but if you research her you will probably find that she was a nurse. Though she probably was not a formal nurse. Lizzie probably met her through the Lake family who lived across the street from Lizzie.

When Lizzie died, she left Catherine five thousand dollars.

Lizzie was always looking to purchase property to keep her neighbors at bay. Along with the lot behind the Swift house, she purchased one to the east side and another to the west side of the Lake house which was just about directly across the street.

It was reported that Lizzie's plan was to move Catherine Macfarland into the Davenport House, so she could be close by. Apparently, Lizzie was very close to Catherine.

I need to do some research to try and discover when the extension was added to the Davenport house. But according to Michael Martins in Parallel Lives, Lizzie had spent a lot of money on the Davenport house, doing extensive upgrades and repairs. After she purchased it it was never occupied. After Harriet Henry sold the house to Lizzie, all tenants moved out. Lizzie became ill and never had the chance of renting out the property, thus her friend Catherine never made it to French Street.

Yes, I need to add:

I refer to the house in which Harriet Henry lived the Davenport House, not the Henry House. When referring to the property east of Maplecorft, most writings make reference to it as the Henry House.

Harriet was a relative of Phoebe Davenport and her husband James, who built the house. Phoebe owned the house for almost 45 years and lived there for over 25 years. Henry had inherited the property and had it not much more than a year, then sold it. Just because she sold it to Lizzie, it became known as the Henry House.

I for one think that the respect and regard given in naming the house should go to Phoebe Davenport, not Harriet Henry. Phoebe loved this house enough that she moved here after her husband died, and lived here with her son for just about 25 years, to say nothing about the fact that she was responsible that the Davenport house even exists.

Thus the Henry House is now called the Davenport House.

As it should be.

"In this article, it is stated, 'Lizzie owned both houses on each side of Maplecroft for her attending servants.'

I've not heard this before - Is it true?"


SORRY YOU ASKED?

I like that website. And I read the article, but I do have one question. I know that Lizzie slept in the house while her father and stepmother were on the dining room table for the night,but I didn't know that the father was autopised on the table, I was under the impression that because the lateness of the day, the morgue was closed, or the mortican was out or something and that's why the bodies were left on the table. SWas he or wasn't he autopised on the dining room table? If that's the case, I don't think I'd be eating on that table again. That's just sick! Ugh!

On a different lighter note, read thru the rest of the article, and found something interesting, bit of trivia, I guess. Lizzie died on Marilyn Monroes first birthday, June 1sr,1927. Thougt that was interesting.

THANK-YOU, MB!

No, I'm not, at all, sorry I asked. In fact, I'm glad I asked, because thanks to you I now have a much clearer picture of not only the location of the houses, but a lot more informative information regarding those houses. I knew that Lizzie had purchased additional property and had her garage built on it. However, I didn’t know that she also purchased the Davenport House. It would be interesting to know why she purchased this house, wouldn’t it?

It must be exciting to live in a house, in which Lizzie had extensive upgrades and repairs done. BTW: I really like the placard you made.

Thanks again for posting the above informative. I enjoyed reading and studying it very much. I intend to read your posts more closely now. You have opened up a new interest for me.

No snokkums:

They are wrong about that also.

And, what you said is not true, though I believe someone will read it and believe it, and in turn pass it on somewhere else.

This is the sort of information that is out there.....folklore, myths and fables.

The autopsies were NOT done on the dining room table.

That is what the fairytale story tellers weave. That fellow has a cool site on "findadeath,", but one must not believe everything one reads, discovers on the Web, or that people who are just hobbyists post.

These sites are a wealth of misinformation.

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Medical examiners are professionals with tools of the trade.

Andrew Borden was autopsied in the sitting room, not the dinning room. There are reports that Abby was autopsied in the dining room, but, but, but not on the dining room table. Edwin Porter who was on the scene states that both bodies were autopsied in the sitting room.

And these were partial autopsies, though the stomachs were removed.

Both bodies were autopsied on MORTUARY TABLES OR BOARDS also known as COOLING TABLES today. Below is a photo of what one looked like in Victorian times. Also similar to the one used in the Borden deaths.

And, I will not post the photo of Andrew Borden's autopsy body, since it is gruesome, but I'm sure you can google it and find it. But if you go to that photo, you will discover such a "Mortuary Table" underneath Mr. Borden. You can see the Rattan surface in the photo. Not, not a dining room table.

No.....they did not use the dining room table. Don't believe everything you read. Take the time to Research it......please.

Yes, Here's another.......

Yes, twinsrwe.

Right know I am fixing up the 2nd floor apartment so I can rent it out, including a new bathroom. Taking me forever.

Thanks for the kudos. The placard was a fun project.

Yes it is very gratifying and rewarding living in an historical home. Especially knowing that where I am sitting right this minute, Lizzie may have sat in the same location. For sure she was in and out of my apartment. It's not so much about Lizzie herself, but about the history behind it. Even thought there is very little known about Phoebe Davenport, that aspect of the building is also of great interest. Just the fact that it's old Victorian Architecture is of great interest to me.

Old buildings and old people. We can lean a great deal about life by having reverence and respect for both.

Lizzie owned the Davenport House for only a year or so before she died. But, she had big plans for it.

According to Michael Martins of the FRHS she purchased the Davenport House to both control who lived next door to her and to have her friend Catherine MacFarland live next door.

Interesting—me thinks.

You are welcome for the kudos, you deserve them. Your posts are very interesting, indeed.

You are so lucky to have the Davenport House to enjoy, especially since it has the history it does. I can’t image Lizzie purchased it without at least seeing it beforehand. As a matter of fact, just knowing it was purchased by Lizzie is a gem in itself. I love to tour old houses, and would enjoy seeing your place very much. You are just so lucky!

I find it interesting that Lizzie wanted to control who lived next door to her. I guess I would do the same if I were in her shoes.

It is so cool that you are fixing up your 2nd floor apartment to rent out. It makes me want to move to Fall River!!!

Yes: thanks twinsrwe

One more point about the Davenport/Henry house that is of great interest, as it pertains to Lizzie.

When she purchased the property late in life, she did so in the name of Charles C Cook, or Crook, as some may think of him.

Cook was into real estate and Insurance and was Lizzie's executor. Lizzie had placed the Davenport house in his trust as to hide the identity of it's true owner. When she died he tried to say that Lizzie wanted him to have the house, that it was left to him. Grace Hartley Howe and Helen Leighton, fought him in court in care of Lizzie's estate, charging him with fraud. He lost.

It is a story in itself and worth investigating for those interested in "Maplecroft Lizzie."

OK, my confusion as to who purchased the Davenport house has just come to light! I had always heard that it was Charles C Cook who purchased it. I also knew that Grace Hartley Howe and Helen Leighton, went to court over Lizzie's estate. I just assumed the estate they fought for was Maplecroft.

MB, I can’t thank you enough for posting this information.

Those autopsy tables don't look very practical...and I'm sure they were not easily cleaned. I suppose they were light to carry around, and as people were generally "laid out" at home, maybe many did not even go to the funeral home. I have not done much research on those customs in victorian times as far as funeral homes and undertakers vs. just washing and dressing the body for burial at home. However, it would be an interesting search.

MB, your plaque is beautiful. I have done restoration on an old house myself up in Maryland before we moved down to South Hell....I mean South Florida! It's extremely rewarding work and I love old houses and old architecture, as well as antiques. I can appreciate your work.

Yes twinsrwe:

It was the Davenport House, (Henry House) that Charles C Cook purchased for Lizzie, with Lizzie's money.

Not sure just how it works but he would have purchased it in trust to Lizzie. Thought his name is on it, it really belong to Lizzie and she had the right to do what she pleased with it, and if she died it would revert to her estate.

Not sure about the legalities, but if you were to go to the city and look up the owner, only Charles C Cooks name would come up. So, when Lizzie died he just thought he could keep it, and probably could have made it work if no one challenged him After all, he was the executor to Lizzie.

No, Maplecorft had nothing to do with Charlie Con-man Crook. Was he really a bad guy?????

Well, before Lizzie died she gave her chauffeur a check to repair his house. I guess she had promised it to him at one time and just before she died she gave him a check for, I think, 2500 dollars. This was before she died. Perhaps on the same day. (?) Not sure when it ws and would need to refresh my mind and look it up.

But when Lizzie died she left the chauffeur 3000 dollars (I think it was 3000).

Charles Cook, being the executor tried to claim that the money Lizzie gave the chauffeur, Ernest Terry, before she died for the purpose of repairing his home, was part of the 3000 dollar left to him in her will.

If true, was Cook planning to pocket the 2500? Sounded like a shady guy to me.

The practice of being "laid out at home" was common into the nineteenth century. I've had the "pleasure" of seeing a portable autopsy/embalming table up close, although from a different era, and no it didn't look all that stable. The guide did not set it up, merely opened it up. It folded up rather nicely. There is a museum dedicated to Charles Arthur "Pretty Boy" Floyd about 15 minutes from me in East Liverpool, Ohio. It's called the The Sturgis House, now a beautiful B&B restored to the look of the time, but was during that time a funeral home. It's where Pretty Boy was first laid out after the shooting. His death mask is also on display. Another "creepy" custom...death masks. But even into the 20th century the bodies would be washed, prepared, and the make up applied there in the home to be laid out. Also other cosmetic niceties were done to make the body presentable which I shouldn't get into for the squeamish. I saw among other things a portable embalming kit and make up kit. I found it fascinating. I would guessimate that the practice in Lizzie's time would've been much the same but with less advanced techniques and tools.

Very fascinating stuff that Lizzie once owned your home MB. That's something! I can imagine the feeling owning and living in property Lizzie once owned. And thank you for explaining the placement of the properties. I have always loved Victorian architecture. It's so graceful, and seems to be so full so history it almost speaks to you.

These have nothing to do with Lizzie or the murders, they are not even of the same era, so I apologize for going off topic. I know that can be frowned upon, so I do apologize if anyone gets offended by my going off subject. I just find it fascinating and with the subject of autopsies in the home being raised thought I'd share. These are my pictures of the embalming table, home make up and embalming kits, and the chin brace that held Pretty Boy's head in place.

Yes SallyG:

It must have been messy. Though, I'm not sure how much was done on one of those tables.

Autopsies were probably rare back in Victorian times, and perhaps those tables were not meant for that purpose.

The Borden autopsy could have been an exception more than a rule. There was no such thing as a city mortuary or Morgue in a small town or city. If bodies needed to be kept, they were probably kept in a receiving vault at the cemetery or hospitals. In Lizzie's time I would guess that the only Morgue was probably in a big cities, such as Boston.

Morgues in Victorian times were really people's homes, wouldn't you say? The funeral home and the undertaker's work shop was the same place. The home.

Below is an interesting undertaker's table. Made for traveling. Looks more like a beach chair.

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Florida and Maryland. How can one compare?

With all respect to Floridians, I sailed my boat down to Florida from New England a couple of years back and spent a winter there. Great weather. Lots of wealth. Nice, new, clean. But I didn't like it there. Something was missing. And at my age, I just could not get over the feeling that it was God's waiting room. But talking to friends at home where it was 22 degrees and 6 inches of snow, while I sat on the porch in 85 degrees with a pina-colada was glorious.

Yes Allen:

Grisly Stuff. Ugh!

But, you should not need to apologize. After all, someone here said its a site about murder. Two people were brutally killed. The possibility of seeing something a little gruesome must be expected.


For example. Check out the horrid scene below.......
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Totally gruesome stuff there MB. There should be a warning on that puppy. Sorry bad pun That is the most adorable dog.

edit. double post. my browser hates me sometimes.

Yes, it's a French Bulldog. They look very much like Boston Terriers. Lizzie's breed. A friend of mine just got one that looks just like this little fellow. I want to come back as one. My only worry would be food, play, walk and sleep.

I think I'd rather come back as a housecat....eat, sleep, use the litterbox, and occasionally play. My cat has it made! (forgive me if I should have posted a warning on the "use the litterbox" phrase...some here may be offended by the thought of cats using the litterbox!)

Oh, my GAWD....I went OFF TOPIC!!!!!

Yes, MB, God's Waiting Room is a very appropriate term for South Florida. My husband and I moved down here 3 1/2 years ago, and to be honest, I loathe it here. Yes, I enjoy the warm weather, but...I don't know...I just don't feel comfortable here. So many of the people are rude, obnoxious, and unpleasant. If I could go back to Maryland, I'd leave tomorrow and never look back!

mbhenty wrote:

No snokkums:

They are wrong about that also.

And, what you said is not true, though I believe someone will read it and believe it, and in turn pass it on somewhere else.

This is the sort of information that is out there.....folklore, myths and fables.

The autopsies were NOT done on the dining room table.

That is what the fairytale story tellers weave. That fellow has a cool site on "findadeath,", but one must not believe everything one reads, discovers on the Web, or that people who are just hobbyists post.

I thought so. I didn't think they were autopised on the table. But, sometimes, I get things wrong too. I still wouldn't want to stay in the house with two dead bodies on the table.

These sites are a wealth of misinformation.

........................................................................................................

Medical examiners are professionals with tools of the trade.

Andrew Borden was autopsied in the sitting room, not the dinning room. There are reports that Abby was autopsied in the dining room, but, but, but not on the dining room table. Edwin Porter who was on the scene states that both bodies were autopsied in the sitting room.

And these were partial autopsies, though the stomachs were removed.

Both bodies were autopsied on MORTUARY TABLES OR BOARDS also known as COOLING TABLES today. Below is a photo of what one looked like in Victorian times. Also similar to the one used in the Borden deaths.

And, I will not post the photo of Andrew Borden's autopsy body, since it is gruesome, but I'm sure you can google it and find it. But if you go to that photo, you will discover such a "Mortuary Table" underneath Mr. Borden. You can see the Rattan surface in the photo. Not, not a dining room table.

No.....they did not use the dining room table. Don't believe everything you read. Take the time to Research it......please.

Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't think they were autopsed on the table.
Sorry about the way i posted. I didn't scroll down far enough so I posted in the middle of yours, opps.

mbhenty wrote:…
For example. Check out the horrid scene below.......
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Now that’s pretty scary there, MB!!! What a cutie!

mbhenty wrote:

Yes twinsrwe:

It was the Davenport House, (Henry House) that Charles C Cook purchased for Lizzie, with Lizzie's money.

Not sure just how it works but he would have purchased it in trust to Lizzie. Thought his name is on it, it really belong to Lizzie and she had the right to do what she pleased with it, and if she died it would revert to her estate.

Not sure about the legalities, but if you were to go to the city and look up the owner, only Charles C Cooks name would come up. So, when Lizzie died he just thought he could keep it, and probably could have made it work if no one challenged him After all, he was the executor to Lizzie.

No, Maplecorft had nothing to do with Charlie Con-man Crook. Was he really a bad guy?????

Well, before Lizzie died she gave her chauffeur a check to repair his house. I guess she had promised it to him at one time and just before she died she gave him a check for, I think, 2500 dollars. This was before she died. Perhaps on the same day. (?) Not sure when it ws and would need to refresh my mind and look it up.

But when Lizzie died she left the chauffeur 3000 dollars (I think it was 3000).

Charles Cook, being the executor tried to claim that the money Lizzie gave the chauffeur, Ernest Terry, before she died for the purpose of repairing his home, was part of the 3000 dollar left to him in her will.

If true, was Cook planning to pocket the 2500? Sounded like a shady guy to me.

Charles Cook sure appears to be dishonest, unethical and greedy in character.
Let’s see, in Lizzie’s will, she gave him $10,000 plus the Baker Lot on French Street.
He also received Lizzie’s 1923 Lincoln car.
Oh, and let’s not forget the $2,000 he received from Emma’s Codicil to her Will for his services to her father, and herself.
He sued the Borden estate for I believe $10,000, but only received $5,000 from the courts.

And he still thought the Davenport House was his to keep?

This man was beyond greedy, he made out like a bandit and still wanted more???

Mbhenty, until now I didn't know you lived in the house right next door to Maplecroft! How wonderful.

It sounds like it, like 92 2nd Street, was built to be a 2-family home, yes?

I'd love to know more about what extensive renovations Lizzie did to it, whenever you track down that information. Do you have any shots of the kitchens you think Lizzie was responsible for?

Yes Catbooks:

92 was known as a 2 family when Andrew Borden purchased it back in the early 1870s. To me it will always be known as the Charles Trafton House for the man that originally built it in 1845. At the time Borden purchased it it was known as number 66 Second street, and some time later known as 92, and today recognized as number 230 by the US postal service. Below is an article from the old Hatchet magazine about the history of the house. You may like to read it. (The article starts off with a little fiction, though the characters were real people at the time. I began many of my articles that way.)

http://lizzieandrewborden.com/HatchetOn ... urder.html

When I purchased the Davenport house the kitchens had been renovated. Probably sometime in the late 50s or 60s. So much of what Lizzie witnessed was gone. And since then I have renovated the kitchens again. Lizzie had added a room to the first and second floors of the house at the rear of the building extending a 48 foot long building to 60 feet. The rooms were about 13 feet by 12 feet in size. This became the kitchen. There is very little evidence to where the kitchen was before, even though I had many of the walls gutted when I renovated.

Below is what the first floor kitchen looks like. The cabinets were hand built by me just before I sold the house. Not much money to build. Not very modern, but clean and functional.

I just discovered that Grace (Terry) Gross died about two weeks ago.

She was one of the last people alive that knew and was very close to Lizzie as a child.

She was the daughter of Lizzie's chauffeur Ernest Terry.

She died in Camden, ME. She was 97