Abby’s Instructions to Bridget About Washing Windows
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Inspector
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Abby’s Instructions to Bridget About Washing Windows
If you would take the time to read this section of Spencer’s CALB, pages 692-694, I would love to hear your thoughts.
I recently touched on the subject in some earlier posts when I discovered the discrepancy of Lizzie and Bridget’s movements Thursday morning, and how they contradict each other in regards to their interactions with Abby.
I just ran across Spencer’s analysis of the exact subject and timing.
He does some of his best sleuthing on these few pages IMO, and he unwrapped verifiable fact, and perceived fact.
Surprisingly he throws in Morse and Lubinsky as well.
It was so thought provoking that I’m going to read it again, but I would like to hear any ideas you might have about it.
Remember, Bridget stated she never saw Lizzie after she came back from being sick.
Hint: Spencer presents s good scenario that Abby was killed while Bridget was outside getting sick.
This never occurred to me, because I chose to believe testimony that pointed to a bit later——by believing Lizzie’s testimony of her seeing Bridget (in the house) with her window washing equipment.
And….Bridget’s testimony of speaking to Abby.
Also , the time Morse left also is presented by Spencer as integral in how one sees this crucial time period and testimony of Bridget and Lizzie.
I recently touched on the subject in some earlier posts when I discovered the discrepancy of Lizzie and Bridget’s movements Thursday morning, and how they contradict each other in regards to their interactions with Abby.
I just ran across Spencer’s analysis of the exact subject and timing.
He does some of his best sleuthing on these few pages IMO, and he unwrapped verifiable fact, and perceived fact.
Surprisingly he throws in Morse and Lubinsky as well.
It was so thought provoking that I’m going to read it again, but I would like to hear any ideas you might have about it.
Remember, Bridget stated she never saw Lizzie after she came back from being sick.
Hint: Spencer presents s good scenario that Abby was killed while Bridget was outside getting sick.
This never occurred to me, because I chose to believe testimony that pointed to a bit later——by believing Lizzie’s testimony of her seeing Bridget (in the house) with her window washing equipment.
And….Bridget’s testimony of speaking to Abby.
Also , the time Morse left also is presented by Spencer as integral in how one sees this crucial time period and testimony of Bridget and Lizzie.
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camgarsky4
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Re: Abby’s Instructions to Bridget About Washing Windows
I am out of town and away from the book. That said, I agree with Spencer and think Abby was killed while Bridget was vomiting. I think Lizzie thought she had gone out to start the windows and when Andrew left moments later, Lizzie knew the house was empty and headed to the guest room. Having just chatted with Abby, she knew that was where Abby was going once she fetched clean shams. And as they say, the rest is history.
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Lorcan
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Re: Abby’s Instructions to Bridget About Washing Windows
I read through it and I may be a bit tired so not at peak mental sharpness, but my guesses:
1. Morse really did hear the first general instruction about the window washing. I think Abby may have at some point while dusting saw something about the inside windows (perhaps hand prints on the inside glass or pollen on the outside) and she reiterated to Bridget later to wash them inside and out they are filthy). Bridget said she washed them once or twice a month, so perhaps they were particularly dirty that time.
2. Bridget said some of the clothes were drying in the kitchen on a rack, I assume some laundry would dry in the cellar, maybe pillow shams were in a closet upstairs by Abby's room (where Bridget got the extra sheets after the murders). Maybe Abby having just beaten the guest room bed with the stick and walking up and down the front stairs - perhaps she was taking a bit of a dusting break before hoofing it up and down the back staircase and then up the front staircase, so she waited a bit for the pillow sham duty.
BEGIN PURE SPECULATION
3. I think Lizzie waited for Bridget to be outside, if she were the killer. One of my unsubstantiated theories is there was a chair near the window near the sewing machine and when Lizzie went upstairs to baste a loop/button whatever it was - she could have looked out the window to check the driveway, perhaps saw Bridget go on one of her 7 or so trips to the barn to refill the pail - then she could sit in the sunlight and sew within arm's length of Abby, hatchet under a pile of laundry on her lap and with a glance to the Buffinton house windows to make sure it was all clean, stand up and swing in one quick motion.
END PURE SPECULATION
4. I don't think Morse nor Bridget lied. I think Abby was killed when Bridget was outside. I think bed making in 1892 was strenuous versus today and I think those pillow shams were stored where the sheets were stored up the back staircase in the closets in the far northeast of the house (above the kitchen pantry (now a bathroom on both floors - the private bathroom in the Andrew and Abby suite, but with a door from the hallway adjacent to the stairs back then. Now that they are bathrooms the hall doors are walled over and the doors are from the kitchen and bedroom.
1. Morse really did hear the first general instruction about the window washing. I think Abby may have at some point while dusting saw something about the inside windows (perhaps hand prints on the inside glass or pollen on the outside) and she reiterated to Bridget later to wash them inside and out they are filthy). Bridget said she washed them once or twice a month, so perhaps they were particularly dirty that time.
2. Bridget said some of the clothes were drying in the kitchen on a rack, I assume some laundry would dry in the cellar, maybe pillow shams were in a closet upstairs by Abby's room (where Bridget got the extra sheets after the murders). Maybe Abby having just beaten the guest room bed with the stick and walking up and down the front stairs - perhaps she was taking a bit of a dusting break before hoofing it up and down the back staircase and then up the front staircase, so she waited a bit for the pillow sham duty.
BEGIN PURE SPECULATION
3. I think Lizzie waited for Bridget to be outside, if she were the killer. One of my unsubstantiated theories is there was a chair near the window near the sewing machine and when Lizzie went upstairs to baste a loop/button whatever it was - she could have looked out the window to check the driveway, perhaps saw Bridget go on one of her 7 or so trips to the barn to refill the pail - then she could sit in the sunlight and sew within arm's length of Abby, hatchet under a pile of laundry on her lap and with a glance to the Buffinton house windows to make sure it was all clean, stand up and swing in one quick motion.
END PURE SPECULATION
4. I don't think Morse nor Bridget lied. I think Abby was killed when Bridget was outside. I think bed making in 1892 was strenuous versus today and I think those pillow shams were stored where the sheets were stored up the back staircase in the closets in the far northeast of the house (above the kitchen pantry (now a bathroom on both floors - the private bathroom in the Andrew and Abby suite, but with a door from the hallway adjacent to the stairs back then. Now that they are bathrooms the hall doors are walled over and the doors are from the kitchen and bedroom.
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Inspector
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Re: Abby’s Instructions to Bridget About Washing Windows
One major clue to the exact time Abby was killed, would be determining exactly when/how Bridget learned, or spoke to Abby about the pillow shams.
This is a big problem with Bridget’s testimony.
One conclusion I’ve come to, is that Bridget has to be the only possible co-conspirator if Lizzie is guilty.
This is a big problem with Bridget’s testimony.
One conclusion I’ve come to, is that Bridget has to be the only possible co-conspirator if Lizzie is guilty.
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Inspector
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Re: Abby’s Instructions to Bridget About Washing Windows
Cam if you are correct it means all conversations Bridget had with Abby and Lizzie happened fore she went outside to get sick.
This means the pillow shams discussion from Bridget’s perspective happened before she got sick or Bridget learned about it later from Lizzie, incorporating it in her timeline—-incorrectly.
This means the pillow shams discussion from Bridget’s perspective happened before she got sick or Bridget learned about it later from Lizzie, incorporating it in her timeline—-incorrectly.
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camgarsky4
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Re: Abby’s Instructions to Bridget About Washing Windows
Yep. But did Bridget talk all that much with the other two after she got ill?
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Inspector
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Re: Abby’s Instructions to Bridget About Washing Windows
Bridget’s sighting of Abby in the dining room after she came in from vomiting, and the somewhat detailed discussion about window washing, and possibly pillow shams (still looking into that) means Bridget’s memory isn’t what I personally thought so steadfast.
It’s a big chunk she has out of place, especially if Morse has the timing correct.
She may have talked to others and picked up or confused her timing,
However the more I see her inconsistency, I have to remain unbiased, and try to see if we can ascertain any factual evidence of manipulation, just as we would with Lizzie.
It’s a big chunk she has out of place, especially if Morse has the timing correct.
She may have talked to others and picked up or confused her timing,
However the more I see her inconsistency, I have to remain unbiased, and try to see if we can ascertain any factual evidence of manipulation, just as we would with Lizzie.
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camgarsky4
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Re: Abby’s Instructions to Bridget About Washing Windows
Can you imagine how crappy Bridget felt in the moments before she darted out the side door and into the back yard to throw up? We've all lived that miserable and all consuming experience. We are at the mercy of our bodies at that point. Do we think she was fully absorbing what was going on around her in those moments? Hopefully she felt better afterwards, but to think that the sequence and timing of super brief and, when they occurred, inconsequential and mundane interactions with other people might not be a bit muddled doesn't seem realistic to me.
For me, bad nausea is the most consuming 'normal' illness. Headaches and sore throat are bad, but they are child's play compared to those moments before vomiting. My pet theory is that Bridget had a really bad hangover after sipping a bit too much Irish Whiskey the night before during her 'walk'.
She was retching so loudly that it appears Andrew checked her out as he was leaving. Churchill doesn't mention if he went back to comfort Bridget, but I hope he did (doubt he did).
Anyway, a good exercise for you might be to post what you think the conversations were that Bridget reported happened after she was sick. I think you'll find they are actually quite brief. Seconds long chats.
"Please wash the windows. The outside windows? In and out. Ok."
"I'm going to put clean shams on the guest pillows. Did you wash them this week? Yes. They are in your dressing room with the sheets."
For me, bad nausea is the most consuming 'normal' illness. Headaches and sore throat are bad, but they are child's play compared to those moments before vomiting. My pet theory is that Bridget had a really bad hangover after sipping a bit too much Irish Whiskey the night before during her 'walk'.
She was retching so loudly that it appears Andrew checked her out as he was leaving. Churchill doesn't mention if he went back to comfort Bridget, but I hope he did (doubt he did).
Anyway, a good exercise for you might be to post what you think the conversations were that Bridget reported happened after she was sick. I think you'll find they are actually quite brief. Seconds long chats.
"Please wash the windows. The outside windows? In and out. Ok."
"I'm going to put clean shams on the guest pillows. Did you wash them this week? Yes. They are in your dressing room with the sheets."
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Inspector
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Re: Abby’s Instructions to Bridget About Washing Windows
Well, I’m going on your, and Spencer’s theory (possibly mine) that Abby was killed while Bridget was getting sick, even (if she really got sick) may be a consideration I’ll add in.
This would mean there was zero conversation with Abby and Lizzie after Bridget got sick, until Lizzie appeared at the side door.
All information Bridget gained from Lizzie and Abby (first hand) could only come from Lizzie’s short visit down stairs around 9 o’clock .
Bridget didn’t mention the pillow shams in the PH, so I’m going through her trial testimony to see exactly how she stated the exchange and if it was second hand, like the note.
This would mean there was zero conversation with Abby and Lizzie after Bridget got sick, until Lizzie appeared at the side door.
All information Bridget gained from Lizzie and Abby (first hand) could only come from Lizzie’s short visit down stairs around 9 o’clock .
Bridget didn’t mention the pillow shams in the PH, so I’m going through her trial testimony to see exactly how she stated the exchange and if it was second hand, like the note.
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TeenaBee
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Re: Abby’s Instructions to Bridget About Washing Windows
I have read Spencer, and also agree that Bridget had her timeline mixed up, Abby did tell her to wash windows much earlier, and I also agree with Cam that it seems the most likely time that Abby was killed was while Bridget was out being sick. Maybe for different reasons. For one, I don't think it possible that Abby was just hanging around dusting downstairs for 30 to 40 minutes after Morse and Andrew left as Bridget seemed to suggest, and two, as I keep open the possibility that Lizzie was innocent, that would be the best time for an intruder to sneak in, while Lizzie was down in the water closet. In my pet theory, the intruder saw Andrew leave, saw Bridget out back and thought it was a good time to get in the house, and with a stroke of luck that no one was in the kitchen, he was able to sneak upstairs. But by stroke of bad luck (for him) surprised Abby in the guest room.
Of course, an intruder isn't necessary, it definitely could have been Lizzie who immediately followed Abby up to kill her. But this presents me two problems. Was she planning to use a hatchet all along? Did she have one waiting in her room, just sort of waiting each day for Abby to take herself upstairs out of sight? That is what Spencer suggests I think. How could she count on that happening? She couldn't. Also, if she had just killed Abby while Bridget was in back under the pear tree, then how could she have shown up at the back door minutes later when Bridget really did go out to wash windows without being marked with blood? Without trailing blood all over the house?
I know an intruder is an implausible scenario, but for me, Lizzie doing it and leaving no evidence is equally implausible. It's Lizzie's words afterward that most make her look guilty, she definitely got her story all scrambled. But then it would seem Bridget's story is scrambled as well, her timeline mixed up, and the shock to her memory could not possibly have been as severe as the shock to Lizzie's memory, so.... Well, at least Bridget didn't make up a story about a note. That's the thing that always trips me up on my merry way to Lizzie's innocence, that stupid note story.
Of course, an intruder isn't necessary, it definitely could have been Lizzie who immediately followed Abby up to kill her. But this presents me two problems. Was she planning to use a hatchet all along? Did she have one waiting in her room, just sort of waiting each day for Abby to take herself upstairs out of sight? That is what Spencer suggests I think. How could she count on that happening? She couldn't. Also, if she had just killed Abby while Bridget was in back under the pear tree, then how could she have shown up at the back door minutes later when Bridget really did go out to wash windows without being marked with blood? Without trailing blood all over the house?
I know an intruder is an implausible scenario, but for me, Lizzie doing it and leaving no evidence is equally implausible. It's Lizzie's words afterward that most make her look guilty, she definitely got her story all scrambled. But then it would seem Bridget's story is scrambled as well, her timeline mixed up, and the shock to her memory could not possibly have been as severe as the shock to Lizzie's memory, so.... Well, at least Bridget didn't make up a story about a note. That's the thing that always trips me up on my merry way to Lizzie's innocence, that stupid note story.
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camgarsky4
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Re: Abby’s Instructions to Bridget About Washing Windows
Good callout on how Bridget's recollection makes it appear that Abby was shockingly thorough or slow at dusting, and likewise, Bridget had the same 'turtle pace' issues when it came to washing dishes!! Three people (4 including Bridget) eat breakfast and it takes Bridget a really long time to clean them. Abby was dusting that dining room a whole bunch.
Eliminating either from doing those chores post-9am makes it feel more time appropriate.
Eliminating either from doing those chores post-9am makes it feel more time appropriate.
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Lorcan
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Re: Abby’s Instructions to Bridget About Washing Windows
Suppose the pillowcases were in the laundry room in the cellar and instead of Abby going up the back staircase to the closet (where sheet and pillowcases folded up as a set normally, but this time the pillowcases were not included?) it went like this:
Abby: I'm just about done with the guest room, but I need fresh pillowcases.
Lizzie: I think I saw them in the laundry room drying last night. I'll bring them up if they are there.
Lizzie goes to the basement, uses the toilet, grabs a pile of laundry and hides a hatchet inside and adds the pillowcases on top.
Lizzie: Here you go, Mrs. Borden.
They both start walking up the front staircase.
Lizzie: One of my buttons almost came loose. I'll have to sew it back on.
Lizzie and Abby enter the guest/sewing room together.
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Alternate Version
Lizzie stole a brand new hatchet (what turned out the be the Crowe barn hatchet) as a joke because of all the trouble they had in Marion last year with the hatchet that was too dull to chop wood. It has been hidden in her room for months.
Same scenario except this time everything is innocent and the dress is really damaged. As Lizzie is sewing she and Abby have some words. Something Abby says sparks uncontrollable rage in Lizzie and she storms out of the room and slams her bedroom door. Abby continues her work. Lizzie remembers the hatchet. She comes back in holding the dress to finish, but there is something very shiny and sharp under the folded dress. Abby initially looks up, ready for the argument to resume, but Lizzie uncharacteristically says, "I'll discuss it with father. We will not speak of it again." Lizzie walks toward the sewing machine and Abby relaxes. Then an arc of bright metal flashes in her peripheral vision.
Abby: I'm just about done with the guest room, but I need fresh pillowcases.
Lizzie: I think I saw them in the laundry room drying last night. I'll bring them up if they are there.
Lizzie goes to the basement, uses the toilet, grabs a pile of laundry and hides a hatchet inside and adds the pillowcases on top.
Lizzie: Here you go, Mrs. Borden.
They both start walking up the front staircase.
Lizzie: One of my buttons almost came loose. I'll have to sew it back on.
Lizzie and Abby enter the guest/sewing room together.
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Alternate Version
Lizzie stole a brand new hatchet (what turned out the be the Crowe barn hatchet) as a joke because of all the trouble they had in Marion last year with the hatchet that was too dull to chop wood. It has been hidden in her room for months.
Same scenario except this time everything is innocent and the dress is really damaged. As Lizzie is sewing she and Abby have some words. Something Abby says sparks uncontrollable rage in Lizzie and she storms out of the room and slams her bedroom door. Abby continues her work. Lizzie remembers the hatchet. She comes back in holding the dress to finish, but there is something very shiny and sharp under the folded dress. Abby initially looks up, ready for the argument to resume, but Lizzie uncharacteristically says, "I'll discuss it with father. We will not speak of it again." Lizzie walks toward the sewing machine and Abby relaxes. Then an arc of bright metal flashes in her peripheral vision.